Readers' Comments
Article:
Tue, Apr 15 | By Victoria Lim | 143
SAN CLEMENTE, Calif. -- The term No Kill is common to animal shelter workers and animal advocates nationwide. A No kill shelter is one in which euthanasia is reserved only for the untreatable and untamable animals. Few shelters can claim the title, b… more ›
101 results
norap p.
4 years ago
Been in the field a long long time in a shelter that also provides animal control. I find this guy somewhat devisive at a time when we need to come together as much as we can. He's got a lot of good points but sometimes, at least in my opinion, misses the mark on some issues. Bottom line--we all need to work together to do the best we can for the animals--what IS best we may not all ever agree totally on--but there is so much common ground that we can focus on.
DEREKDEMANE
4 years ago
I work at a no kill shelter and I can speak for all the animals that have/are and will pass through our shelters doors that they are very thankful for it being there. Hopefully, someday all shelters will be like ours!
Andy K.
4 years ago
Ok, first of all, I have a different interpretation of "No Kill" than what was mentioned in this story. "No kill" seems pretty clear cut "no" meaning none and "kill" meaning put to death, not in a natural manner. So the definition used in this story - "A No kill shelter is one in which euthanasia is reserved only for the untreatable and untamable animals." Is a bit odd.
As to the "myth of overpopulation" come check out a shelter during kitten season. Sure, a lot of people want animals in their homes but are these people responsible pet owners or are they just people who want something. I want a lot of things but I also know to beware my wishes.
Finally, great ideas for increasing adoptions. More adoptions need to be done. But again, are all adopters people we want to have pets. And who is going to fund all the additional activities? The "Army of Compassion"? People need to put their money where their mouthes are. You want no kill facilities? Great, so do I. How much money and time have you given to your local animal control facility? I thought so.
PJ W.
5 years ago
I live in dog country, Texas. I live 2 doors down from a feeder/breeder of cats. My first rescue was a tiny pregnant female. When her litter was born I sent the pics of 4 beautiful kittens to over 100 people. I got 2 responses.
Another person sent a pic of 5 puppies to half of that (50) and they were gone and people wanting more in 10 minutes.
Mr. Winograd needs to come to Texas and show the shelters that overpopulation is a myth. I love his ideas but I have to disagree with him.
Also, spaying and neutering is not affordable here and that is a large part of the problem. I just don't think I understand why it has to remain at over 100.00 when the vets don't keep the animals overnight any more.
A no-kill nation would be wonderful.
amy m.
5 years ago
Quote from article:
The notion of “pet overpopulation” in Winograd’s mind is a “myth.” He refers to his research which shows more people are looking to bring dogs and cats into their homes than the number of those put into shelters.
I haven’t read the book, but I am on my way to get a copy. I hope he gives directions to the planet he lives on so I can fire up my space ship and bring all the homeless animals from earth to him and all his friends waiting to adopt pets.
Jessica H.
5 years ago
i agree with him that they are blaming the community for having to kill animals when they could put their efforts to try and do other programs to reduce the pet population and get more people to adopt pets
Dmbutte
5 years ago
I hope for the animals sake that Winograds predictions come true but with all I know of basset hound rescue there definitely is an over population problem, right now Ohio basset rescue is having to turn away dogs because all the foster homes are full and they are begging for more help and this is just one specific breed.
betty p.
5 years ago
That is true about the Ohio Basset Hound rescue. Our shelter had a 5 year old basset hound and asked if rescue could take him. We like pure breeds to go to their rescues so we the shelter and take care of the mutts. The OBH Rescue had no room. So we posted him and got him adopted after a couple weeks, but would have rather he went to them and opened up that cage a bit sooner.
Gwen J.
5 years ago
Okay, I have a few problems with the author's claims. First: that pet over-population is a myth. Secondly: there are more people looking for pets than are available.
Having worked at an animal shelter that had an animal control cotract, I can tell you that part of the problem is the un-checked breeding practices of a lot of backyard breeders and puppy mills. For this Winograd to make the claim that there are "more people looking to bring dogs and cats into their homes than the number of those put into shelters". Of course this statistic takes into account the many, many people looking for pure-bred or "designer" dogs and cats. I once overheard a breeder make the statement that "there are always homes for the puppies" a few months later she was left with a puppy she had been unable to sell (at $1600.00 each!).
While I do applaud Winograd's attempts to eliminate all un-neccessary euthanasia, I fear that the goal of "5-10 years" may be a little overly optimistic. I do believe that education is a huge part of the equation, but I also believe that there need to be stringent laws regarding the breeding of dogs and cats.
Sarah B.
5 years ago
I think this is an exciting prospect to consider. I am going to look for his book. Could you imagine the whole country being no-kill? Awesome isn't a strong enough word to describe it! I really pray this becomes a reality, whether it takes the 5-10 years or more. As long as it happens. What a great guy. I think we should all buy the book & discuss it on Zootoo. Has anyone read it? Where did you buy it?
Frzframe
5 years ago
There is nothing wrong with getting a pure breed. In fact if responsible owners would spay/neuter their aniamls that would eventually enlimated mutts. If we as a responsible pet owner would only purchase our pure breeds from those who are trying to better their breed that would also help with shutting down puppy mills and back yard breeders. In my shelter in which I am a very active board member the majority of the animals brought in are not pure blood and even whole litters of puppies along with their mom's are brought in. These are the ones we need to target for spaying their animals but sadly a lot of these folks don't care and that it's easier to dump their problems then fix them to begin with.
Kittypassion
5 years ago
I'll have to get his book. I am in agreement 100% in that we need to be a no-kill nation. It would be great if he could donate a book or contributions could be made to donate a book to every pound in the whole USA. The behavior needs to be changed.
Sarah B.
5 years ago
You have a great idea. Donate a book to each shelter. Get the word out there to the people that can implement the changes. Teach them how to do it! This is an exctiing subject. I think all animal lovers should read this book & take the information back to their local shelters.
Suzanne P.
5 years ago
You can say that more people want pets than are coming into the shelter - may be true - BUT - BIG BUT HERE - a very large percentage of people focus their attention to purebred dogs - that is the perception that has to change for these animals to find more homes.
Sarah B.
5 years ago
This is true that spay/neuter has to be practised by all animal owners. Once all shelters make this a requirement to adopt, we may see some changes start to happen. Once we read this book & get more ideas to implement. Ideas will spread & take hold like little seeds. You have to start somewhere. I agree it's a big job thats being taken on by saying all shelters will be no kill in 5-10 years. Even if it takes 10-15 years isn't that something worth working towards. Wonderful things come from just thinking about it. It won't be over night; but just thinking it could come true in this great country has to give shelter employees & volunteers that deal w/ the pets day in & day out much needed hope!
Frzframe
5 years ago
I thought a true "no kill" shelter meant just that...not PTS anything. So, many shelters are understaffed, don't have the space, or the money to keep everything that comes through their doors. They could if they do not accept animals once they have every space full until they are able to adopt some out but that would mean turning away strays. Then what would happen to those animals? Starvation, hit by cars, sickness and a more painful death then in the loving arms of someone who truly care about them.
Lisa
5 years ago
I'm not sure about the puppies & kittens under 4 months, but for everything else, the new owner picks up the animal they have adopted from the veterinarian after the surgery.
I am glad that since we got the new director, the SPCA that runs our shelter has done more aggressive marketing of available pets, and increased adoptions. We might qualify as a "no-kill" shelter, but I'm not totally sure. My involvement is more in fund raising and public relations as a volunteer.
I think the "No Kill" philosophy is definitely worth all shelters aspiring to, even if they never totally reach it, as long as they are working toward it, it is tremendous progress in the right direction.
I have talked with the shelter director here about the possibility of doing swaps with other shelters. Labradors are a dime a dozen here, and if it could be arranged, maybe we could swap with a shelter in another area where labs would be more desirable, for something "different" to this area.
Perhaps it could even be a regional network, where if someone was looking for something specific, they could check with other shelters and arrange to have the animal transferred in. If junkyards can do it for car parts, and car dealers for new cars, why not do it for the animals? Obviously there would be many details to work out, but it could be done.
betty p.
5 years ago
Why not puppies and kittens. Did you know that kittens can get pregnant at 4-5 months old.
For more info on early spay/neuter go here
www.columbusdogconnection.com/PedSpayNeuter.htm
If we can not get shelters/rescues to do 100%, how can get get the public.
betty p.
5 years ago
I would like to know how many shelters/rescues do 100% spay/neuter before the animals goes to its forever home. No contracts. We are talking altered before placement.
I ask because there are some no kills that don't do anything under 6 months and to me that is wrong.
I believe no animal should leave a shelter/rescue until it is altered. No excuse.
So again, how many of your shelters do 100% spay/neuter. If you don't, then we can never move to a no-kill or I like better a low kill shelter nation.
Amanda R.
5 years ago
I think its pretty hard to have a no kill shelter. Of course everyone would like that but depending on where you live the shelter would simply run out of room and then what? Turn away animals that might have a chance in favor of ones that can't seem to get adopted. What happens to those animals? They get sent to private shelters that get over crowded and shut down. Seen it many times and unfortunately just recently.
Patricia C.
5 years ago
At our shelter it costs $75.00 to adopt a dog which includes shots and spay or neuter, $85.00 for a large dog. This is not a bad deal, but people who have never owned an animal, never taken one to the vet, do not know how expensive vet care is. I have adopted animals from the shelter and off the street, so I have cared for them both ways and the shelter way is definitely cheaper. It is over $100.00 for spay or neuter at my vet without humane society assistance which most people do actually qualify for if they ask for it. I wish our shelter was a NO KILL shelter, but unfortunately it is not!
betty p.
5 years ago
So where do you put all the animals that come in the door of your shelter. What happens when there is no more room. If you send them away, then you are more or less killing them because they will end up at some other shelter which is more than likely an open admission shelter. And if they don't have room, they make it by putting something down.
There is never enough room at a no kill shelter to help every single animal that comes for help.
I would love for a no kill shelter to prove me wrong. Show me proof and facts that you never turn away even one animal.
Cassie3
5 years ago
But wouldn't you prefer that all shelters were no-kill shelters? Wouldn't that be a preferable to killing dogs and cats every day? Isn't that Winograd's point? As a nation, shouldn't we aspire to the goal of not killing? Maybe it CAN'T be done, but maybe, just maybe, IT CAN.
Blanchec
5 years ago
I am fortunate that I am associated with a no kill shelter, so I believe in that concept 100%. I did however have difficulty understanding what system Mr. Winograd was going to employ (other than extensive education) to develope this idea nationally. The rental agents almost always state NO PETS ALLOWED. this is a huge stumbling block as not everyone owns their own home. So that would be problem #1. Also adequate screening is essientiel for potential adopters. I hope his 10yr. plan will however become a reality.
betty p.
5 years ago
So if you have to move and you have an animal, why move to where there are no pets allowed. There are several places who do allow. They might charge you and extra pet deposit and a little more on rent. But they are out there.
I have more over 7 times in my life. Ever single time, I took my pets. It was not an option to give them up.
Sarah B.
5 years ago
Yeah I have moved a dozen times & always take my "whole family" without giving any of them away! It's a running joke @ our shelter that dogs aren't allowed in Ohio! Because whenever someone comes in & drops off their animal its usually because they are moving out of state to Ohio. What? Does OH not allow dogs to be brought into the state or what? Dumb, Dumb & dumber if you ask me!
Cassie3
5 years ago
Some people are moving due to losing their homes. They do not have the financial circumstances of being able to pay an "extra pet deposit or a little more on rent." They're not making ends meet--they've lost their homes! Many times, they are restricted to certain areas because they do not want to further disrupt their children's lives by forcing them to switch school districts. It's not like these people want to give up their beloved pets. They've hit hard times; cut them some slack.
Beachxgirl
5 years ago
I think it would be so wonderful if all animal shelters were no-kill. But they need to do some work to get there. For sterters they could offer more low-cost spay and neuter programs. My local shelter advertised a special low-cost spay/neuter clinic, but when I called to book an appointment they were already booked. They didn't even redirect me to another low-cost clinic. I wonder how many other people were turned away and just gave up on fixing their pets? I felt this shelter could have handled this better.
betty p.
5 years ago
I knew by the title of this story I would be upset. And I am. This is a very explosive topic for all animal lovers and shelters. So here is my opinion.
I do not like No kill shelters and here is why. Most that I have had the so called pleasure of dealing with will turn folks away at the door when
1. they don't like the breed, age, temperment of the animal somebody is trying to bring in.
2. when they are full, they turn animals away.
3. they will keep an animal for years and years hoping to one day find it a home yet do not really worry about the mental health of the animal. Some that I have witnessed do not care about the mental health because the physical health is perfect.
When a No-kill shelter turns away an animal, it will end up at an open admission shelter. This means a shelter who takes in all animals even if they don't have space. Which means they have to make space. Most of the open admission shelters are the ones who have fewer volunteers and less funds donated. Why. Because they put down animals. Do they want to. NO. Do they have to. Yes, when they are out of space because they don't turn away any animal because of breed, age, temperment or even if they are full.
What do I like, it is a low kill shelter. I guess which is what you could call my shelter. Mind you, we have not put down an adoptable dog for space in over 5 years. We are a county shelter operated by the humane society. So we always have to have room for strays. So one day, I might have to put down for space.
We do put down injured to the point of suffering to bad to really help, sick to the point suffering to bad to help, people aggressive, and dog aggressive. We do not agree with shelters who hold dog aggressive dogs for adoption. This is asking for trouble. We are talking major dog aggression. Not a dominate thing, but straight out aggression. And yes, folks will say, "you can work with that animal." Well, maybe if we had the funds to do so and the space. But we don't. We also do not want the risk of it getting out and attacking another dog. So it gets put down.
So I call us low-kill when we only put down 11% of our intake of dogs, cat is far less. I do say low-kill because if our dog warden does bring us in more dogs than I can fit into the kennels, we would have to put down for space. But for 5 years, we have not.
So how does it work. We work with rescue groups and other shelters in trading dogs. We have the prison dogs where inmates foster some of our dogs, teach them basic commands and working on housebreaking. We do off site adoptions.
We use 3 different websites to list our dogs. If we have a dog who looks 90% pure, we ask rescues to cross post for us.
It works because we screen each application that comes in. You will more than likely not adopt same day from us which is not like other county shelters. You will fill out an app, your vet will be called. your landlord will be called. your personal reference will be called. If it takes a couple days, it does.
It works because we do 100% spay/neuter on all our animals before they are adopted. Yes, this means puppies at 2 months and kittens at 2 pounds. Nothing leaves our shelter until it is altered. Yet, I see several shelters and a few no-kill who do not do 100% spay/neuter. All shelters and rescues should be. No contracts. Get it done before hand. No excuse.
We also educate the best we can to the public which is not enough in my opinion only because we don't have enough volunteers and we don't have the funds to pay staff to do that job.
But to say No-kill is the only way right now is not going to work. Hope it will in 10 years, but doubt it.
Matt A.
5 years ago
Your response reminds me of many of the "reviews" of our shelter that showed up during the contest by people who obviously had something against no-kills and decided to "review" our shelter with why no-kill shelters are terrible, inhumane, despicable scums of life. My guess is it is either based on a negative experience at a no-kill shelter, or assumptions about hwo these places must operate that are no more accurate than any assumption I'd have about how a homeless shelter operates, given that I have no real first-hand experience with them.
I think there are some shelters that call themselves no-kill that aren't, and some that likely have animals suffering. That doesn't mean all no-kills are that way, and you can't assume that they all are.
I happen to volunteer at a no-kill shelter. We are a small shelter in the Denver area, about 10% the size of the largest shelter in town, both in budget and annual adoptions. We don't "sort" animals and in fact we have often turned away healthy animals because we know they'd be adopted quickly elsewhere, knowing that we need the space for injured and sick animals, to make them better and get them adopted. Our mission is taking in sick and injured animals that would have been instantly euthanized at other shelters, making them better, and adopting them out, so it really irks me when someone starts talking about how we just turn away animals we don't want to care for because of there breed or because it would be too expensive to care for them, it's just not how it works at all shelters!
betty p.
5 years ago
Matt A. The ones I have personal experience with which is 3 do just what I said. They pick and chose only the ones they will place quickly. They want to adopt out a lot and no put down any for any reason. Makes them look really good if they have high adoptions and none put down. And the public loves this because the public does not know or think about the old, sick, injured, needs training animals.
And I hope you do see in my comment above that I based my opinion on the ones I have personal knowledge on. These are ones that in a neighboring counties of ours.
I did not say all were this way. Just the ones I know. So until I am proven different with paperwork and facts, I too will have a hard time chancing my view of a no kill shelter. And most volunteers at a No kill have no clue about the whole operation of a shelter. They might come walk dogs, play with cats, but not the whole operation. They do not know about all the phone calls saying sorry. They don't know about the ones turned away.
I am glad your no kill does take in the injured and sick. But what happens to the ones you turn away. You state in your comment "often turned away healthy animals because you need the space for sick and injured. That is my point. Where do they go. You stated you turn them away. What happens to them. More than likely they end up at an open admission shelter and again if that shelter is full, somebody gets put down for space.
So your no kill might not put down animals, but sending away even one animal means that animal might still be put down some where else because of space. So you did not do the "dirty work", but somebody did some where.
I would love to spend a week at a no kill shelter who would be willing to prove me wrong.
Matt A.
5 years ago
I know we turn away animals, we have to. In fact we have a waiting list of people who want to surrender there animals to the shelter and don't want it to end up at another shelter. I don't think we have animals suffering, because while we are no-kill, if nothing can be done for the animal and we've exhausted all efforts, the animal is euthanized. We aren't no kill for the sake of telling everyone we are no kill, we are no kill because it's how we've chosen to operate. Many animals don't even come out of there shells at the shelter for a month or two, so why put them down if they havent been adopted in 3 months or less? We don't get a lot of the government funding, city contracts, etc. and on top of that, we spend on average about 4-5 times as much money per animal then other kill shelters in the area because we feel we make a committment to that animal. Does that make us better? Not necessarily, just different.
I do find it funny though because some of the reviews of our shelter were things like "looking at there website, they don't have a single pit bull... must be nice to pick and choose like that!" Which is funny because pit bulls are illegal in the city and county where we are located and we could literally be shut down for having a pit bull.
I think so many people think that there way is the only perfect way and anyone who is doing it different is just doing it wrong. While I disagree with tactics of some other shelters, including many no-kill shelters, I don't make it my mission to make others believe that what they are doing is bad. I help out at the shelter I help out at (and put in about 30-40 volunteer hours per week) because it is what I choose to do, if others want to volunteer at other shelters, then I don't see that as a problem and I don't spend my time trying to discredit and shame other shelters.
Frzframe
5 years ago
I agree with Betty P. My shelter is close to another "no kill" shelter and we get their rejects so we have to do their dirty work. It's sad but true. I believe in low-kill shelters where no animal is PTS due to space and all adoptable animals are safe until they find a home. This is my goal for our shelter but it takes money, lots of money and many supports to volunteer and adopt. One day I know we will see this but it will take time...time which the animals don't have.
Thebillpayer
5 years ago
I completely agree with Theresa C....education is going to have to happen consistently(spay/neuter and trap/release programs), then change of allowed bad behavior (puppy mills, race tracks, keeping wildlife as pets, dog fights) , and then hopefully less animals to have to place into homes.
Acedogg2001
5 years ago
I am all for a no-kill nation. I hope this guy will help as many shelters as he can.
Mary G.
5 years ago
Nathan Winograd's dream to "create an army of compassion" is a lovely one, and a "grassroots movement of pet-loving citizens around the country demanding cities to embrace new models of sheltering" is a wonderful idea and can possibly make some inroads towards the dream of No Kill, yet I believe that our country will not become a completely No Kill nation until ALL pets are spayed/neutered and until we do away with pet stores and their inhumane suppliers--puppy mills, i.e., puppy farms. At least at long last we are on the right road, but I fear that it remains a long hard one to follow.
Matt A.
5 years ago
I believe if cities made more of a true effort, it wouldn't be as impossible as many people think. The reason it doesn't work for most areas is they are treating the symptom, not the problem. The symptom is, too many animals not enough families. The problem is, people aren't educated on spaying and neutering their pets, society still encourages breeding your pets and selling the puppies, and pet stores (and the puppy mills they support) are still a nationwide thing. People fall in love with puppies and kittens cause they are so damn cute, then don't know what to do with them. If more cities would focus on spaying and neutering, and passing laws about pet store animals and puppy mills, as well as trap-neuter-return programs, we would see the day when no-kill would someday become the national norm. Unless entire cities embrace the idea that it CAN be done, you will be left with large cities, and only small groups working on educating and sterilizing, just like most are now.
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