More breeders, more animals that need to be rescued

Had not heard of wolfdogs before.

I am glad that someone is helping them.

Glad she is rescuing them!!!! They are beautiful. Hope she places them in good homes.

I guess when you put the term "wolf" into the phrase it lends itself to all kinds of doubts. Interesting to find out that the wolf in these animals is 5 generations removed.

Had never heard of this term before

Not sure that I agree with this.

Interesting perspective...I have mixed feelings.

They are beautiful animals...

It isn't Mrs. Brown who is breeding these dogs, she's just rescuing them.

They are beautiful, but I am one of those people that would be afraid.

My mother lives in Black Mountain, where Full Moon Farm is. Full Moon is a wonderful organization, and they hold many nice events. They also educate the public about these sweet animals.

I can understand a rescue for existing wolfdogs, but I do not understand why they should be bred.We have way too many dogs in shelters looking for a home.

Wolfdog breeding is not a good thing. I was involved with a sanctuary for them years ago. It's very sad. Very high energy and unpredictable.

Snip: Nancy would like to see more responsible wolfdog breeding and more educated ownership. I'd say the same for all breeds. Dealing with a lot of Pit Bulls in Jersey City, we definitely see the need for more responsible everything. As to the breed itself, as long as other wolves are not being brought into the program I don't see much of a problem with them.

Someone has to rescue these animals but i'm not sure how I feel abuot some of this. Putting some of these wolves into homes should almost be out of the question.

Sorry but these are wild animals and should not be bred or trained for potential ownership. It sounnds like this woman needs education herself!

Unfortunately its another exotic pet that suffers at the hands of misguided people

Well I agree with 50% of what Nancy is doing. Helping these poor(never should have been bred) wolfdogs is wonderful and I thank her for that work. However I would never agree that dogs should be bred with any % of wolf. Bad idea all around. Most in the wolf biology and education field acknowledge the animals always loose in the end and always manage to further bad press about wolves. Wolfdog breeding===very bad idea for wolves.

My friend's family had a rescue group for wolf dogs. Her comment on them are that they can be trained like other dogs but there are always a part of them that know that humans are a potential food option. She said this half kiddingly only to say that there is still wolf in them and you really have to be sure you are the alpha with them.

What beautiful animals.

I agree that these wolfdogs shouldn't be breeded. Wolves are wild animals, not pets.

But, for the ones who are alive and that need a home, they should be allowed one if the person has the space, the time and the adequate love for these animals to have one.

There are stupid humans out there, and I disagree with some of the comments down there, since these animals that have been raised around humans now need our help since they haven't been taught how to live on their own by their pack mates. If I had a house in the country side, I would gladly have one of these wolfdogs. I think they're all gorgeous.

Wolfdogs are beautiful. But I really think they should have left the wolves alone, tried to prevent the breeding of wolfdogs. But nothing can be done now, and I'm glad they're trying to prove the rumors wrong.

Awww Cute! They are beautiful animals.

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A quote from a comment below:

"But in the dog, these behaviors have been modified and brought under control. The sheepdog does not attack the animals; it only moves them at the shepherd's direction. The German Shepherd who charges after a gun-wielding criminal doesn't kill him and eat him; he holds him for his human partner. The Labrador who retrieves a duck has such a "soft" mouth, he doesn't even puncture the skin."

Although the comment in itself is true in some areas, it is not true in all. I have a German Shepherd Dog- since he has not been TRAINED BY HUMANS to perform the task noted above, he would undoubtedly not have the same reaction to a situation as the one described. This is comparing apples vs oranges in terms of behaviours.
The above noted behaviours are actually LEARNED RESPONSES, and if left to their canine ancestry, these behaviours would not exist.

This does not change the fact that these dogs are probably not safe for the average dog owner, but again, to own this type of dog requires a large amount of education, owner energy & diligence, and most importantly, responsibility. Down the road they may be considered in the same category as our common German Shepherd Dogs.

Hey, all I know is I've met people who can't control their chihuahua. A breed or cross or mix (call it what you like) with a wolf, I'm sure can be a problem, but it is really about responsibility. I'm not saying breeding them is a good idea. That seems irresponsible to me (pet overpopulation, etc.) Truth is they're here. As long as someone takes one in understand that he or she must be and is responsible for it, I say best of luck. Many people would turn their nose up a my dog, a lab/beagle/english setter mutt. He's the best dog I've ever had. I won't judge anyone who choses to offer a RESPONSIBLE home to a "wolfdog" thats already here.

I agree with guarddOgg below. . . Despite all these passionate arguements below regarding whether or not these animals are a breed, I say. . . IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER! ! ! ! ! ! Whether or not it is a mutt, they are creatures of the canine kingdom and as with any animal, they have their particular needs and quirks. Someone who has never been exposed to such animals need to be extremely well educated. If anyone thought they could decide for me what type of dog I could or could not own, I would be more than a little irrate-- but then again, I try to educate myself on my pets & their needs. It's sounding to me as though some below would love nothing better than to (gasp) euthanize each & every one of these animals. Upon reading Nancy's notes, it is clear that she is simply trying to educate the public on the extreme challenges these dogs present, and she makes it quite clear that these dogs are NOT for the average owner. She also makes it clear that as far as the "breeding" goes, she would like to see the IRRESPONSIBLE BREEDING STOPPED. That does NOT translate into "PUMP UP ALL OTHER PRODUCTION." Wishing these dogs away will not work---- the key is education, because as with any other (OMG- - - should I dare to say it. . .) Breed, they are here to stay.

I think some people are missing the point; Nancy is not encouraging people to go out and get these dogs, she's just asking that people educate themselves about the types of animals they are dealing with, and as many people here have pointed out, that applies to anything you are going to take responsibility for, be it a dog, horse, cat, child or car. She is hoping her educational efforts are going to dispel the fear and mistrust that people are directing at the animal that gets a bad rap for falling in the wrong hands. Again, as some people have said, that can be generalized to a lot of things: other canines, scissors, alcohol, guns, money, sudafed, etc. etc. Some of these things are regulated as they arguably should be. I don't think she said she's against regulation, but regulation never stops the moonshiners, drug dealers, and poachers of the world; your only real weapon is education, which is what she is wielding at FMF. Look at tobacco. Look at "Silent Spring".

Are they a breed? I would be presume that's irrelevant to this discussion, other than it is a convenient term so we don't have to type "wolfdog" all the time. Likewise, "breeding" and "breeder" is much more convenient than "facilitating wolfdog sex" and "wolfdog sex facilitator". But, since it's been brought up, let's clarify: I would refer everyone to the dictionary definition of "to breed" taken from Wiktionary (say what you will about the accuracy of wikis, and omitting the definitions not pertaining to the discussion for brevity):
"
Verb
1. To sexually produce offspring.
2. Of animals, to mate.
3. To keep animals and have them reproduce in a way that improves the next generation’s qualities.
4. To arrange the mating of specific animals.
"
Nowhere does it mention the need for an AKC pedigree. I would wager that someone who is arranging matings of wolfdogs with the intent of producing a healthier animal with better temperament and stringent puppy placement policies could sanely be referred to as a "responsible wolfdog breeder". I would also wager that is the sort of person that Nancy, like any breed enthusiast, is referring to. That same intent, I believe, qualifies wolfdogs as a "breed" under that definition. At one point or another, all of the dog breeds in existence today (most of which have only been existence in the last century or so, at best) were considered mongrels by some organization or another. Even within established breeds, there are divisions and splinter groups ("working" and "show" lines, for example). Consider wolfdogs, thing-a-poos, and realistically, every other breed out there, a breed "in flux".

For what purpose? Whether or not you can conceive of a purpose that is suitable in your mind does not invalidate the existence of one. As was pointed out, just because sports cars aren't your thing doesn't mean you should tramp all over responsible sports car owners. Why have a thing-a-poo? Because there were desirable traits in the "thing" and "poo" that somebody wanted to combine, a niche someone thought needed filled: that's what happens when humans direct nature. Is it right? Is it an abomination against nature? That's a whoooooooole 'nother thread, but to put things in perspective, nature's apparent ideal dog is quite different from what some of us might think: Google "coppinger village dog". I would highly recommend everyone read Dr. Coppinger's book, "Dogs", by the way; it's a fantastic insight into our favorite friend's history and psychology and is very relevant to the topics brought up here.

Actually, as far as purpose goes, why do most people have dogs in America these days? To be companions. They serve no other major purpose. I have a husky, but I do no sledding or skijoring. One might ask what purpose she serves, then. To be an intelligent companion, to share precious moments with in life and teach me about myself and other worlds that only stubborn dogs can introduce me to, I would reply, but that is just what she means for me. I'm sure everyone here has their own reasons and they may be vastly different, but I can't invalidate theirs anymore than they can invalidate mine in my head. Is it cruel to keep a wolf or wolfdog in captivity? Is it cruel to keep a husky without mushing them? Is it cruel to keep a collie without letting them herd livestock? How many of your terriers are hunting rats? Heck, is it cruel to keep a human at a desk job? I would argue that in each of these cases, all involved parties can lead very fulfilling lives if the will is there, and who am I to stomp on that relationship? Sadly, I would also argue that in each of these cases, most people fall drastically short of fulfilling their part of the bargain; most canin

Wow, this is quite a thread going on here. I don't think my 2 cents is worth a hill of beans on this thread. ALL breeders should be responible breeders. And I should leave it at that.

Despite the variety of shapes and sizes of todays domestic dog breeds, all are directly related to the wolf. Nancy says she would like to see more responsible wolfdog breeding & more educated ownership. I think that is a smart thing. I don't neccessarily think people should be breeding dogs just to have puppies to sell since there is enough shelters bursting @ the seams full of dogs needing homes. That said if people are going to be breeding them, which you aren't going to be able to stop altogether, wanting more responsible breeding & educated ownership is & can only be seen as a good thing. I did look up Wolfdog in my Smithsonian Handbook on DOGS & could not find a dog named Wolfdog!?

"Nancy would like to see more responsible wolfdog breeding"

There is no such thing. "Responsible wolfdog breeding" is an oxymoron.

What on earth is the purpose? WHY would someone CROSSBREED this way?

With all the animals in need of homes, how does ANYONE justify crossbreeding?

And while low content wolfdogs (<25%) may be "no more dangerous than any other pet dog," a HIGH CONTENT (>50%, especially F1 crosses) wolfdog IS significantly more dangerous than a dog.

For thousands and thousands of years dogs have been bred selectively to be, literally, "Man's (and Woman's) Best Friend." Dogs naturally, instinctively, like people and want to be with people. Wolves naturally and instinctively fear and avoid people. It is not just a question of how the animal is raised; wolves and dogs are genetically preconditioned to certain behaviors. The herding instincts of Border Collies and other shepherd dogs are a modified form of the wolf instinct to cut off a weaker animal from a deer herd. The police dog who chases down a felon is a direct descendant of the wolf bringing down his prey. The retriever who loves to carry things in his mouth got it from the wolf who carries the kill back to his den.

But in the dog, these behaviors have been modified and brought under control. The sheepdog does not attack the animals; it only moves them at the shepherd's direction. The German Shepherd who charges after a gun-wielding criminal doesn't kill him and eat him; he holds him for his human partner. The Labrador who retrieves a duck has such a "soft" mouth, he doesn't even puncture the skin.

Dogs are essentially emotionally immature wolves; that is why they can be trained to do such things and kept as companion animals. Among dog breeds, there are dogs that are easier or harder to handle. Dog breeds have been specialized to the point where you can pick a breed that will have the temperament that suits you and your family. I would not recommend Schutzhund-bred German Shepherds (which is what I have, and I love him to death), Dobes, or Rottweilers to most people, as most people are not interested in putting in the time and training required to handle a dog of this nature.

Ed Frawley of Leerburg Kennels, a veteran K9 officer who has bred working German Shepherds for years, says the following of wolf/dog crosses:

*******
The problem is not the wolf in the mix. It's the dog's temperament added to the wolf. You have an animal that is shy of humans with a strong pack instinct and is very territorial being bred to a dog with no fear of humans. Now what if the dog that it's bred to has weak nerves? What if the dog it's bred to is a sharp dog with weak nerves?

There are [people] that breed animals that are sharp with the mistaken understanding that the aggression that they demonstrate is a sign of toughness... The fact is that it is a sign of weakness in an animal. Now combine that with the shyness of a wolf and you have a guaranteed problem walking around waiting to happen.

The logical reply could be that this can happen with dogs. That is true--but not all the time. The fact is that 100% of the time that you cross a wolf with a dog you are adding 50% of the problem (shyness) to the pie. So you do not have to be a math teacher to figure out the odds are much, much higher for problems to occur when a wolf is factored into a breeding program.

Overwhelmingly, wolves and wolf hybrids do not make good pets. There are very few people who can safely keep wolves or **high-percentage wolf hybrids** [my emphasis]. They do not make good house pets or guard dogs; they are generally too shy around people to be good watchdogs. They must be contained in a secure pen because they can be escape artists. Caution must be used with small children; these animals play rough and often cannot be taught to inhibit their rough behavior. They are also very protective of food and possessions. They retain the strong prey-drive instincts and may attack suddenly and savagely--not because they are "vicious," but because something triggered the predator-prey response. When they attack, they kill like the skilled predators they are: swiftly, efficiently, and *calmly*. Most states require permits for these animals and in some states they cannot be owned at all.
*****

There are over **400** FCI recogized breeds, including the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog and the Sarloos Wolfhond (neither of which is recommended as a working dog due to the high flight drive of the wolf in the background). I ask again: what is the POINT of crossing wolves and dogs?

Responsibility & education is desperately needed across the nation for any pet ownership. Two big reasons for the overpopulation at all our shelters. Educate yourself on the type of pet you think you need and then commit to being responsible for it.

Very informative, I never realized the actual origin of these animals. I'm glad someone is taking the effort to save and inform others about this breed

According to the National Wolfdog Alliance, 40 U.S. states effectively forbid the ownership, breeding and importation of wolfdogs, while others impose some form of regulation upon ownership.[10] Most European nations, as well as many U.S. counties and municipalities, also either outlaw the animal entirely or put restrictions on ownership.[11][12].



Before you buy a wolfdog, you may want to check your states laws as well as those of the city where you live.

Jim

WOW ! In reading posts I have seen that there is a bad misconception about wolves as well as other animals. Since I am new here it will take me a while to catch up but I feel it is only just that in this discussion someone come to the defense of the wolves.

First of all, wolves are not a “bad guy”. They are not naturally “human aggressive”. There has not been on substantiated, unprovoked wolf attack on humans recorded and verified in the written history of this country.

Given an option, wolves will stay as far from humans as possible. It is difficult to see one in the wild unless you are in relentless pursuit of them.

Wolves are predators. Since humans are not on the food chain for wolves, then it is not likely that wolves would seek humans out to eat, despite what “Little Red Ridding Hood” says.

Wolves are very shy and timid animals when faced with human presence. Not because they “fear” humans, simply because they have no reason to desire human presence in their natural surroundings.

They have every reason to hate humans; the Government eradication program was nearly as effective as the eradication program against my people.

For many Native Americans, the wolf signifies the teaching spirit. The wolf taught us many things. They taught us to live together in a family structure. They taught us to defend one another to make the family stronger. They taught us that it takes a village to raise a child.

Wolves do not indiscriminately breed. In natural conditions, only the Alpha Male and the Alpha Female breed. The entire pack will care for the cubs once the mother brings them from the den. The structured social development of wolves still has much that humans could learn about family values if we just listened.

Sorry, I read a couple of posts which seemed to be rather rough towards the wolf and I just wanted to make a few clarifications in their defense.

Jim

I would love to have a wolfdog as a pet. That would be amazing

" A wolfdog is not a wolfdog is not a wolfdog. "

In a sense I have to agree with that statement.

I hear people referring to wolf/dogs as hybrids.

A Canadian Timber (North American Gray Wolf) Bred to a Mexican Gray Wolf is a hybrid.

Just as when breed two other species such as Lions and Tigers, they are neither Lion or Tiger. They area new species all together.

Many species have chromosomes which match close enough for breeding, yet their original DNA structure is different.

I do not believe that wolves bred to dogs are hybrids, they appear to be a new species all together.

While the determining factor in traits is often determined by the strengths of dominant genes in the dog breed used in the breeding. The wolf characteristics are strong dominant genes with fewer recessive characteristics. Dog breeds are often multiples of recessive genes with few dominant genes, depending on they type of breed.

The more dominant genes of the wolf are most likely to over power the recessive genes of dog breeds.

I have seen people who breed wolves with Collies and Sheppard’s, I have also seen people who breed wolves with Dobermans and Rotties.

A man in the Pacific Midwest was brought to just in 2002 for breeding wolves with pit bulls to use for fighting dogs.

The volunteers who tried to get the breeding stopped were beaten several times before evidence was gathered that the dog fighting was actually going on.

All breeders who breed wolves with dogs are not good people.

In creating a new species, it is difficult to say what the mix will create, or how it will effect the ecosystem once some of these animals become feral and they have and more will.

People become frightened of their "wolf/dog and release it into the wild. They stand about the same chance as a dog released into the wild. Some make it some do not.

I have contacts with people all across the country who rescues wolves as well as wolf/dogs. I do not know of many who are not filled to capacity at any given time.

We have to turn down over a hundred animals every year that we cannot house or find housing for with another organization.

SImplyt put, if wolf/dogs are only bred five generations back, where did the wolf blood come from to start with? Sounds to me like there is indeed afullblood wolf in the wood pile.

We too have been rescuing woolf/dogs for the last 14 years, along with "Captive Bred Wolves".

The myth that there are no wolves being brought from Alaska and Canada is in fact a myth.

If there are no captive bred wolves, then the wolf/dog is a myth.

Our professional team of experts include a certified zoo keeper, a wildlife biologist, a zoo veternarian, an environmental biologist and an animal husbandry specialist/handler. All of these experts would disagree that there are no wolves in cpativity.

The fact that Alaska has allowed aerial hunting of wolves and their lack of enforcement on wolf kills has lead to a very large ammount of poaching over the last few years.

Poaching during cubbing season indeed brings several hundred cubs into the hands of breeders over the years.

The simple fact is, there is no justification for breeding wild animals to domestic animals.

Wild animals have instincts whi have endured for thousands of years. Five generations will not remove those instincts.

The myth of half dog and half wolf is justthat as well.
Genetics simply do not work that way. Thedegree of blood is more accurately determined by the genetic charachteristics inherited from one parent or the other.

In the same litter one can expect to see one animal that predominantly inherited dog traits while another inherited predominantly wolftraits.

Genetics are not devisible by two.

I am not sure where the idea that wolf dogs came from breeding five generations back. My question at this point reverts back to my original one. Wheredid the wolf blood come from fivegenerations back and if it got there then, why can it not get there the same way today?

If you stop to think about if, five generations back for canids is not so far back in years.

How many years back is five generations minimal?

I have heard similar arguements from people aadvocating breeding of wolves and dogs for years, I have heard similar arguments from those breading Lygers as well.

The simple fact is, for profit breeders of wild amimals reguardless of what degree is wrong and a violation of nature as well asethics.

For those who may decide to buy a wolf/dog because they are just pets, you may want to do some expanded research before you do so. It takes a great dealmore patience than you may think.

There are a number of real differences in wolves and dogs to be able to identify the difference.

The first is that wolves are fur bearing animals, thatis why they are hunted in the first place. Don't take my word for it, do your own research and you will see that in fact wolves are bred to dogs regularly in the United States.

You can make a viscous animal out of any dog with cruel handling and poor training. These animals, like any other large animal need to be handled according to their needs and with kindness.

I think "wolfdogs" would be just as suitable as any other dog if it was raised/trained right. It's like Rots and any other "bully dog", if they are treated right and raised right they can be wonderful pets. I think they should take "wolf" out of the name, people would be less quick to judge. Glad this lady is helping though.

I HAVE seen half-wolf half-dog mixes being sold to people wanting something "cool". I personally think they should not be bred or sold as pets at all, regardless if the pure wolf is 5 gens back or 1. There are plenty of real dogs that look like wolves to suit peoples taste. Why want something like that? And I have heard horror stories of wolfdogs. I know one state regulation (forgot which one) is that the wolfdog has to be contained in a 10 foot escape-proof enclosure. Why get a pet you cant take anywhere? Just to be a badass and say you have a wolfdog? Oh yeah, that gets you admiration from me in my book. @@

I think that goes for any breed you really need to think about what you are getting and make sure that you can take care of it. Also you are right they need to be educated on takeing proper care of the animal befor getting them. I think a good law would be to make people have a permit to have special breeds like this and other dangerious animals to prove they are going to be able to take care of them

Wolf dog puppies, or any other breed for that matter, should NEVER be sold to anyone without fully educating the people about the care and special needs of the breed. I've fostered a couple of wolf dogs over the years and they're amazing ... but definitely not a breed that should be raised casually by backyard breeders and people without great knowledge of the breed.

STOP the breeding, not only of wolfdogs but all animals until overpopulation is a word we no longer have to hear about our precious animals. A lot of people think my husky is part wolf so a lot of people don't know the facts.

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I was unaware of the wolfdog...but it sounds like they are misunderstood. Full Moon Farm is doing a great service to these animals.

They are such stunning creatures. This organization seems like it is very responsible and would only place wolfdogs in families where they know they would be secure.

Personally I do not think these animals should be bred as wolves are wild animals and should be left as wild animals. Wolfdogs are part wild animal. IMO that makes them dangerous as they are inherently part wild animal and not completely domesticated. They are a mutt, not a breed of dog.

What a wonderful shelter! It is great to see that she is not only rescuing the wolfdogs, but also educating the public. These are such beautiful creatures!