zootoo.com
discover by
pet type

Carriage Ban Debated at NY City Hall Meeting

Browse News

It's been around since the 1940s, but tradition aside, horse carriages in New York City now have to go, one Councilman is saying. Tony Avella introduced the ban on the practice Friday at City Hall, where parties from both sides gave public testimonies.

NEW YORK -- A horse carriage ride through Central Park has been a classic tourist excursion since the 1940s, but a group of New Yorkers, led by Queens Councilman Tony Avella, are now saying "neigh" to the practice, which they cite as inhumane.

Avella introduced a ban on the practice on Friday afternoon at City Hall, where he and hundreds of people issued public testimonies against horse carriages.

It wasn't all laughs and a bale of hay, though -- several representatives of the approximate 285 carriage drivers also turned out, crying the potential loss of jobs this ban could prompt. They also said that the animals are treated fairly.

"You know what it is to have a job and not be able to pay your mortgage?" asked Kevin Brudie, a member of the union Teamsters Local 553, to the hundreds of people holding up signs of mutilated horses and the word "BAN!" on the steps of City Hall.

"You know what it is to have to walk through New York City midtown traffic for nine hours at a time, dodging cars and fumes?" one protester yelled back.

Inside City Hall, the ambiance retained a comparable intensity; Avella and other councilmen questioned representatives of the NYC Department of Health and NYC & Company, a marketing and tourism agency, hoping to assess the potential financial loss the city would face if the ban goes through.

Avella and the Coalition to Ban Horse Drawn Carriages say any monetary ramifications could not compete with the pressing issue of animal cruelty.

"This issue has to be put out to pasture," Avella said. "We believe we have grown enough in society to recognize cruelty to animals is no longer appropriate. This is an industry that makes its living on the backs of these animals."

The horses, which are all privately owned, are allowed to work eight to nine hours, seven days a week. They only must be brought into their stables if the temperature exceeds 90 degrees Fahrenheit, or dips below 19.

Three carriage horses perished in various accidents in 2006 and 2007, but the thought of a ban has been around since the 1970s, long before the deaths made headlines in New York City newspapers and television stations.

"This has been going on for years, but we couldn't get any politician to support it and introduce a bill until Tony Avella came along," said Christine MacMurray, vice president of the Coalition to Ban Horse Drawn Carriages. "We lose horses every year -- they die in the streets or are put down anyway."

Avella's measure, Intro 658, stands in opposition to Intro 653-A, which would raise horse carriage fares and amend regulations on the commercial industry, which draws in 550,000 to 700,000 tourists a year, according to NYC & Co.

Representatives from the company say the ban could cause the city's tourism industry to take a hit; Avella argues tourists don't just come to New York for a carriage ride, anyway.

Avella's ban would include provisions that provide for the drivers, granting them re-training opportunities in different professions. Teamsters Local 553, however, says that is not enough, and that this is "an issue of fairness," said Executive Officer Demos Demopoulos.

"This is about doing what is right for the working people, especially in this economy. The industry has not had a fare increase for over 20 years," he said.

Currently, carriage drivers are permitted to charge $10 for every 15 minutes; that fare is often manipulated, though, said Avella, citing higher prices listed on various Web sites.

"They are scamming New Yorkers left and right," he told Pet Pulse News.

Despite his qualm with the loose fare system, Avella said the issue here "is not really about the drivers. It's about the horses and their safety."

The ASPCA is partially responsible for monitoring the working animals' well-being. In 2008, the ASPCA conducted 54 separate inspections, according to Stephen Zawistowski, the organization's executive vice president and science advisor.

The majority of the horses were found in good health, but four have been sequestered to their stalls after the ASPCA deemed them too weak or sick to work. Inspectors also took issue with lighting conditions and the stables' placement on a second floor, which could make it difficult to fully evacuate all the animals during a fire.

"We have seen consistent difficulties and have catalogued problems," Zawistowski said. Despite the drivers' willingness to accept the ASPCA's recommendations along the way, the practice's inherent nature still presents problems, Zawistowski said.

"The law is still limited," he explained. "These horses will still be working on the streets, presented with the dangers of traffic, fumes and needing to go in and out of traffic. It's not the romantic image that is given."

One councilman then questioned Zawistowski, saying that all New Yorkers have to contend with a similar set of issues on a daily basis.

"New Yorkers make that choice for themselves," Zawitowski pointed out. "And they are not forced to do it for nine hours a day."

This cold winter, in particular, has been rough on the working horses, the ASPCA and the Humane Society of the United States say. In late December, the horses were kept out as a snow storm blew through Manhattan.

"I'm sure we all remember the first blistering ice storm on December 19, when the horses were forced to work that day," HSUS New York State Director Patrick Kwan said. "Despite it being bitter cold and icy, with slippery conditions, the horses were kept out."

The ASPCA eventually forced the drivers to bring the horses back into their stalls.

One driver named "Brenden," however, previously told Pet Pulse News that the drivers do not generally push the horses to work in harsh conditions.

"It's a-100 percent conformity on that law -- probably the only law in New York City that people conform to," said "Brenden" in an interview last summer. "Like last week, we got a four day block where it exceeded 90 degrees Fahrenheit, so we didn't even bother coming to work."

Demopolous maintained in the testimony that the drivers care for their animals properly and "know what they are doing." The horses, he says, are simply not abused.

Pet Pulse did not hear testimony from any of the drivers, who were represented by the teamster union. In previous interviews with Pet Pulse News, one driver said that he never works his horse "Colin" more than six hours a day.

"He works a five day week, Monday through Friday," said the driver, who only gave his first name, "Colin." "It's pretty easy, not very strenuous at all."

The NYC Department of Health backed the drivers during the testimony and opposed Avella's bill. It works alongside the ASPCA in conducting inspections and "monitoring the use of carriages to ensure a safe operation," according to Edgar Butts, the assistant commissioner of veterinary and pest control services.

The Department of Health has not cited any issues of health or safety that could support the ban, Butts said, noting that no working horses are younger than five, or older than 20 years.

There is no need, Butts said, to "destroy part of the ambiance of the city."

"We don't want to take away features that make New York more attractive when there is no need to," he said.

Avella has not set an exact time frame for passing the bill, explaining to Pet Pulse, "I really had to push for this hearing. Let's just see how it goes."

He has received some support from other members of the NYC council, but says that Mayor Mike Bloomberg's opposition to the ban has left people weary.

Avella believes, though, that as the ban receives additional media attention, more New Yorkers and tourists alike will support the cause. He recommends people talk to their councilmen and women about the ban.

"The average New Yorker who understands this issue will say, it is time for this industry to go," he said.

If the ban passes, New York City would join the ranks of London, Toronto, Paris and Beijing, which have all banned the practice.

Tell us what you think about “Carriage Ban Debated at NY City Hall Meeting” below. Share your favorite videos by clicking on the ZootooTV tab. Send us your story ideas by e-mailing us at news@zootoo.com or by calling us at 877-777-4204.



Tags


How do you like this article?

84%, 65 out of 77 users thumbed up.
Thumbs Up Thumbs Down

Discuss this topic

Comments


989 comments found.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 16 Showing page of 16 Go
 
NYC carriage horses.

See www.banhdc.org
 
sylvia m.
sylvia m. (ladyheck)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I think the horse's should be watched after,But why not give them aplace to give rides an keep cars out.The drivers need to be monitered also.
 
JennaGee
JennaGee
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
For all of you that are for the banning of the carriages and for those of you that are on the fence, I have this question to ask. What do you think will happen to these horses if this ban goes through? These horses are privately owned and the owners take care of boarding them, feeding them, caring for their medical needs, etc. If the owners are out of a job they will not be able to support these horses. Many of the carraige horses are bought at auction and saved from slaughter. If this ban goes through, I predict most of these horses will end up in the slaughter house because their owners will not be able to afford to keep them. These horses are alive and if they had a voice I'm sure they'd express their gratitutude. No matter what you think of their working conditions, the committee that oversees their care has found NO evidence of abuse of these horses. I have not heard a single word from the supporters of this ban as to what should be done with the horses if this passes. I hear "they should be in a pasture". Well that's a beautiful image but there is one problem......what pasture? Who's going to pay for the feed and care of the horse? Are these people who are so passionate to get these horses out of Central Park going to put their money where their mouth is? Do a Google search on horses in Kentucky. Thousands of them are left in pastures to starve to death because the price of feed has gone up so much that their owners can't afford it anymore. It's expensive to own a horse, there aren't people lining up to just take them in and take care of them.
 
Carol L.
Carol L. (langsford)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I can see where you are coming from and agree, I do think there will always be a few that perhaps do not care for the horses the way they should. There are also wonderful caring people who love their horses and do not work them to death. Regulation to insure the horses are well treated will get rid of the bad apples.
 
SuzieGoose
SuzieGoose
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I am not sure what I think about this. I feel that they should still have carriages and horses in central park . I just dont like the idea of horses being over worked or out in temperatures that are way too cold. Rules have to be enforced here, and the law has to make sure they are. I do remember the horses I saw really were not well taken care of. They also smelled really bad! So, something needs to be done here!
 
Patty F.
Patty F. (SuzieQ1985)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
Know what I hate even more than that? Pony rides..... I want to cry when I see ponies tethered to a pole that leads them around and around in a circle for hours every day at the fair. Head down, back swayed, around and around and around. I would suggest taking your children to a stable for a pony ride around the farm.
 
jeanerz13
jeanerz13
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I don't like the idea of horses being too close to cars for any reason. Just look at the horse that got spooked and got his leg caught in a truck grill at the presidential innauguration (spelling?) But would it be possible to make special routes just for the horse drawn carriages that will be far from the noise and fumes of city traffic? I've never been to NYC, so I don't know if such a place exists in the city. In any case, if the ban does not pass, I think they should set a more moderate climate range for the horses to work. 19 to 90? Come on! Would you want to walk around in 19 degree weather for 8 hours?
 
Kathleen H.
Kathleen H. (Draken)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I agree that horses should have access to shelter. But...just for the sake of stating it...there are a lot of horses that are outside in that weather (and colder) including wild horses.
 
Sarah  W.
Sarah W. (Roxymimi)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I have mixed feelings about this one - In some ways I am on the side of the protesters but I'm also siding with the drivers who seem like they at least care a little about the animals needs. I'm not sure what will happen. lets hope whatever happens, happens to the best.
 
DawnG01
DawnG01
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
Its been a long-drawn out "battle." But this is the way these things go, esp. when it involves the government. In this instance, NYC revenues.
 
Karen S.
Karen S. (kstrieder1)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I wonder how this story is progressing.
 
Corinne B.
Corinne B. (Murphy24)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
It is a nice idea to take a horse-drawn carriage through the park, but those poor animals!
 
menglish
menglish
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
You can't have it both ways. The carriage horse rides should be outlawed.
 
wanda f.
wanda f. (foochy)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
walk it's healther
 
Carrie T.
Carrie T. (bartcarrie)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
This is an outdated inhumane practice that needs to end. I am glad people are speaking out for the horses.
 
kadiquilts
kadiquilts
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I have never taken a carriage ride myself, though we have them in our city, too. I am split on the matter. If the horses are treatly humanely and well-cared for and people us the service--then why not? If it is meant to fade away--it will....
 
Sheryl J.
Sheryl J. (sheryl59)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
Take a walk instead, horses should be in pastures not on pavement.
 
Mary W.
Mary W. (mgwaggoner)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
Hope this ban passes. Give the horses a break.
 
k c.
k c. (Ringoeshireking)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
Let the market forces work. If people don't us the service, then the service will fade away. If it profitable it will continue.
 
Veronica (Ronnie) G.
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
FOR MORE INFORMATION:

www.banhdc.org
 
susie359
susie359
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
Time for change... to quote someone!
 
j h.
j h. (barcelonaboca)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
Living right outside thie city, we find ourselves in Central Park all the time and I can tell you the people who actually go for these carriage rides and clueless tourist. You will never find a New Yorker in one of these things, so why has it become a supposed "NY tradition". Why not take a taxi, aren't they just as famous (and deadly!).
 
maria h.
maria h. (mariamoose)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 2 users liked it.
Reply
It IS time for this "industry" to GO! Nobody in their right mind would go for a carriage ride in the freezing cold,ice and snow.So,why were the horses out?Ridiculous!
 
doglady100
doglady100
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
There are a lot of things from the 1940's that aren't around today - it is time for these carriages to go too. It is so hard on the horses. They work long hours, 7 days a week, in temperatures that range from below freezing to sweltering. The traffic is scary and the air polluted with fumes. That is cruelty.
 
kadiquilts
kadiquilts
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
Why not use a bicycle? Perhaps the city should rent bicycles......but I fear people are lazy.....to much work.
 
deb b.
deb b. (deblue)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
What was decided?
 
RichardK
RichardK
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
Many of the horses are old. The city has had to regulate the use of the carriage horses in inclement weather. If the owners love them so much, they should have imposed their own regulations to protect them...Its a business
 
Amanda C.
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I'm not sure what to say....It surprises me...
 
Robert R.
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
Again, how is this different than using horses for mounted police? Is it ok to use dogs in comat zones? K-9 police ok? Mules for logging? What is the difference between these and other service animals? Does anyone have any stories they can share of abuse, injuries, or mistreatment of these horses? Should it be regulated more?

Anyone have an update on the story?
 
DawnG01
DawnG01
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
When I first saw the NYC carriage horses, years ago, I knew it was wrong. Tourists stand around and pity the horses and question the driver as to the care, etc. The carriage horse trade in NYC is not like it used to be. People are more aware.
 
Amanda H.
Amanda H. (Amanda)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I really hope that some sort of compromise can be reached. The most important thing is the horses safety.
 
filomena
filomena
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I pray things work out for the horses. They have been working on the streets of new york for a long time now. Maybe they should retire.
 
It is time to end the carriage horse trade in NYC. Advocates have been trying for years. Just like anything else...politics and politicians. I need say no more.
 
Bonnie K.
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
the wellbeing of the horses should be the only consideration. Too bad they waited this long to worry about them.
 
Jessica C.
Jessica C. (jjc7b2)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
If more people are made aware of this issue, hopefully they will stop frequenting these carriages. If the industry drops off, it will be easier to pass legislation banning it. The public can really make a difference in issues like this.
 
Liz145
Liz145
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I always feel sad when I see carriage horses trotting on the hard, unforgiving pavement through the city. It also seems dangerous for a horse/carriage to share the road with city-dwelling motorists, most of whom know nothing about the nature of horses and just drive right up on them, not considering the possibility of a spook. I have also seen mounted patrol horses get spooked by their city surroundings. I just don't think horses weaving through streets of speeding cars is a good mix. If it is feasible to cordon off areas for horses only, perhaps a compromise could be reached.
 
ourstaff
ourstaff
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
The health and safety of the horses needs to be at the center of the issue. If a compromise can not be reached to do that then the practice needs to be banned
 
Tanya H.
Tanya H. (erthfrend)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
They should do what is right for the wellbeing of the horses. That is the most important thing. In so many cases when we see animals being used for entertainment or in some other way, we have to look past the pretty image we see and realize that in most cases, when animals are used for profit, their wellbeing is usually not the priority. Another example is pony rides. I have seen ponies that were very neglected and left to die when they are too old but luckily someone got them to a sanctuary in time. So before we support anything that uses animals for profit, it is best to look behind the scenes and find out the facts, just like with greyhound racing, horse racing, etc.
 
Debbie
Debbie (Shortcircuit)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
How sad, I really don't understand how they can treat animals this way, especially ones that have brought so much joy to people.
 
oldmaidcatwoman
oldmaidcatwoman
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
We had similar problems locally. I am ashamed to say I don't know what the outcome was.
 
Patricia  C.
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
Oh how sad that they go to slaughter after working so hard all their lives. That really is inhumane. Something does need to be done!
 
Tammy M.
Tammy M. (tmurray123)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
Disposable! People need to start "thinking" differently.
 
John H.
John H. (JohnH)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
To keep a long time tradition, there has to be some kind of mid ground on this.
 
Emily E.
Emily E. (esquared)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I agree, it'd be a shame to get rid of it with its long history.
 
Missy M.
Missy M. (Mshan)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I believe these rides have their place. But at the same time, these horses need to be treated fairly and not just as someone's meal ticket. I feel both can be satisfied if they are willing to listen to each others views.
 
D W.
D W. (dminpin)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
The horses and carriages are beautiful and have been a part of New York for so long, but the steets are far too stressful and dangerous for people, let alone animals. They have no understanding of the noise and commotion around them. Mayor Bloomberg's only concern is the tourist dollar. If he thinks that the city will lose a lot without these rides, he could build a path around Central Park, away from the streets and traffic, for them.
 
Lucille Vaughn F.
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
I have been to New York many times, but never had the urge to take a carriage ride. I really feel, though, that it should be banned. The odds are that some horses are worked too long and too hard. Also they have to stand in a stable if they are not working. They do not have a pasture to rool around or run in. I always remember the book Black Beauty, and I am sure that it did reflect some of the cruelty that happens. Money is why they want the carriage horses, not love of the beautiful animal
 
Matthew14
Matthew14
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
Interesting
 
Randi
Randi (boyer81)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
It's soo hard to come to a conclusion about this sort of thing. In one hand I am for it and on the other I am against it. I think what other people said about proper regulation and stricter rules and better workings hours would certainly help. I sometimes think some things get out of hand and people would rather do away with things then to work them out.
 
There seems to be a lot of controversy about the NYC carriage horses. Information helps a great deal. There is a web site about the carriage horses:

www.banhdc.org

And Google: NYC horse drawn carriages. Good to know both sides.

 
Amanda D.
Amanda D. (Doglovers4)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I find carriage rides to be very unique, I would have loved to go for a ride, but very sad that they horses have to go through that every day of their life.
 
rebecca c.
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
never been on a carriage ride but sounds kinda romantic although poor horses for having to be out in the weather.
 
Brad O.
Brad O. (BOpp)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 1 user liked it.
Reply
Some people like to ruin things. Horses like to work. If they cannot prove abuse leave the carriages alone.
 
Sherman H.
Sherman H. (PVCGuy)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
Amen to your comments I totally agree.
 
JenHuedy
JenHuedy
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I agree. As long as the horses are healthy and cared for, there is no reason to ban carriage rides. What next? Ban the Amish from using buggies & horse-drawn farm equipment? What's to stop them from banning horseback riding altogether?
 
Terri w.
Terri w. (sunnybroad)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
there is no place in the city for this kind of "entertainment" Too crowded, to dangerous for animals and drivers
 
I think it is a great idea to get them banned, although that is how people used to get around, tiomes are very diffrent now and the horses are in danger every time they get on the street with all the vehicles in new york city...You have to think about the horses in this matter not the tourist attraction!!!
 
ACfromNY
ACfromNY
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I hate to see the carriage rides go away, but if its in the best interest of the horses so be it.
 
John H.
John H. (JohnH)
9 months ago
Flag this | Good Point | 0 users voted.
Reply
I think the issue is there are horse owners that will work these horses without regard for their well being. If they addressed that, I think it would solve the issue.
Zootoo pet news videos
A Voice for The Animals

A Voice for The Animals

If you are interested in donating to North Shore Animal League visit NSALAmerica.org.

A Diamond in The Valley

A Diamond in The Valley

"The Valley" has always been known for top of the line shopping, spas, and more... But now, you can share the best of the best with your pet.

New Developments in Pet Cancer Treatment

New Developments in Pet Cancer Treatment

Animal Cancer Foundation founder, Dr. Gerald S. Post, informs K9 in the City on the new breakthroughs in animal cancer treatment. There are more effec…

Fashion For all Dog Kind

Fashion For all Dog Kind

You may not dress your dog up every time you leave your house or perhaps you and "Tinker Bell" enjoy wearing the latest fashions together. Regardless,…

The Softer Side of Howard Stern

The Softer Side of Howard Stern

With the capacity to shelter 300 animals at any given time, North Shore Animal League is known to be the “largest no-kill animal rescue” in Americ…

Is Animal Cancer Treatable?

Is Animal Cancer Treatable?

In Brooklyn, Dr. Post, a veterinary oncologist explains that animal cancer is treatable but since cancer is the most common cause for death in older …

Some Run for The Gold; He Runs for The Goal

Some Run for The Gold; He Runs for The Goal

You may remember the New York City Marathon runner, Brayden Mathews, who ran to raise money for United Action for Animals, a long time promoter of the…

True Blue Yankees Fans

True Blue Yankees Fans

The New York Yankees celebrated their 27th victory in the MLB World Series. Devoted fans gathered in Manhattan's financial district on November 6th,…

A Whole Art Gallery, Gone to the Dogs?

A Whole Art Gallery, Gone to the Dogs?

Have you ever wondered what the world looked like to a dog? Well what if "Spot" could draw a picture for you? In New York's neighborhood of Chelsea, t…

Meet Munch: Star of Iams

Meet Munch: Star of Iams' 'Beautiful on the Inside' Ad

Big conventions can be great places to hobnob with celebrities, and the Meet The Breeds event at the Jacob Javits Convention Center in New York City w…


View all

News Archive