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Carriage Ban Debated at NY City Hall Meeting

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It's been around since the 1940s, but tradition aside, horse carriages in New York City now have to go, one Councilman is saying. Tony Avella introduced the ban on the practice Friday at City Hall, where parties from both sides gave public testimonies.

NEW YORK -- A horse carriage ride through Central Park has been a classic tourist excursion since the 1940s, but a group of New Yorkers, led by Queens Councilman Tony Avella, are now saying "neigh" to the practice, which they cite as inhumane.

Avella introduced a ban on the practice on Friday afternoon at City Hall, where he and hundreds of people issued public testimonies against horse carriages.

It wasn't all laughs and a bale of hay, though -- several representatives of the approximate 285 carriage drivers also turned out, crying the potential loss of jobs this ban could prompt. They also said that the animals are treated fairly.

"You know what it is to have a job and not be able to pay your mortgage?" asked Kevin Brudie, a member of the union Teamsters Local 553, to the hundreds of people holding up signs of mutilated horses and the word "BAN!" on the steps of City Hall.

"You know what it is to have to walk through New York City midtown traffic for nine hours at a time, dodging cars and fumes?" one protester yelled back.

Inside City Hall, the ambiance retained a comparable intensity; Avella and other councilmen questioned representatives of the NYC Department of Health and NYC & Company, a marketing and tourism agency, hoping to assess the potential financial loss the city would face if the ban goes through.

Avella and the Coalition to Ban Horse Drawn Carriages say any monetary ramifications could not compete with the pressing issue of animal cruelty.

"This issue has to be put out to pasture," Avella said. "We believe we have grown enough in society to recognize cruelty to animals is no longer appropriate. This is an industry that makes its living on the backs of these animals."

The horses, which are all privately owned, are allowed to work eight to nine hours, seven days a week. They only must be brought into their stables if the temperature exceeds 90 degrees Fahrenheit, or dips below 19.

Three carriage horses perished in various accidents in 2006 and 2007, but the thought of a ban has been around since the 1970s, long before the deaths made headlines in New York City newspapers and television stations.

"This has been going on for years, but we couldn't get any politician to support it and introduce a bill until Tony Avella came along," said Christine MacMurray, vice president of the Coalition to Ban Horse Drawn Carriages. "We lose horses every year -- they die in the streets or are put down anyway."

Avella's measure, Intro 658, stands in opposition to Intro 653-A, which would raise horse carriage fares and amend regulations on the commercial industry, which draws in 550,000 to 700,000 tourists a year, according to NYC & Co.

Representatives from the company say the ban could cause the city's tourism industry to take a hit; Avella argues tourists don't just come to New York for a carriage ride, anyway.

Avella's ban would include provisions that provide for the drivers, granting them re-training opportunities in different professions. Teamsters Local 553, however, says that is not enough, and that this is "an issue of fairness," said Executive Officer Demos Demopoulos.

"This is about doing what is right for the working people, especially in this economy. The industry has not had a fare increase for over 20 years," he said.

Currently, carriage drivers are permitted to charge $10 for every 15 minutes; that fare is often manipulated, though, said Avella, citing higher prices listed on various Web sites.

"They are scamming New Yorkers left and right," he told Pet Pulse News.

Despite his qualm with the loose fare system, Avella said the issue here "is not really about the drivers. It's about the horses and their safety."

The ASPCA is partially responsible for monitoring the working animals' well-being. In 2008, the ASPCA conducted 54 separate inspections, according to Stephen Zawistowski, the organization's executive vice president and science advisor.

The majority of the horses were found in good health, but four have been sequestered to their stalls after the ASPCA deemed them too weak or sick to work. Inspectors also took issue with lighting conditions and the stables' placement on a second floor, which could make it difficult to fully evacuate all the animals during a fire.

"We have seen consistent difficulties and have catalogued problems," Zawistowski said. Despite the drivers' willingness to accept the ASPCA's recommendations along the way, the practice's inherent nature still presents problems, Zawistowski said.

"The law is still limited," he explained. "These horses will still be working on the streets, presented with the dangers of traffic, fumes and needing to go in and out of traffic. It's not the romantic image that is given."

One councilman then questioned Zawistowski, saying that all New Yorkers have to contend with a similar set of issues on a daily basis.

"New Yorkers make that choice for themselves," Zawitowski pointed out. "And they are not forced to do it for nine hours a day."

This cold winter, in particular, has been rough on the working horses, the ASPCA and the Humane Society of the United States say. In late December, the horses were kept out as a snow storm blew through Manhattan.

"I'm sure we all remember the first blistering ice storm on December 19, when the horses were forced to work that day," HSUS New York State Director Patrick Kwan said. "Despite it being bitter cold and icy, with slippery conditions, the horses were kept out."

The ASPCA eventually forced the drivers to bring the horses back into their stalls.

One driver named "Brenden," however, previously told Pet Pulse News that the drivers do not generally push the horses to work in harsh conditions.

"It's a-100 percent conformity on that law -- probably the only law in New York City that people conform to," said "Brenden" in an interview last summer. "Like last week, we got a four day block where it exceeded 90 degrees Fahrenheit, so we didn't even bother coming to work."

Demopolous maintained in the testimony that the drivers care for their animals properly and "know what they are doing." The horses, he says, are simply not abused.

Pet Pulse did not hear testimony from any of the drivers, who were represented by the teamster union. In previous interviews with Pet Pulse News, one driver said that he never works his horse "Colin" more than six hours a day.

"He works a five day week, Monday through Friday," said the driver, who only gave his first name, "Colin." "It's pretty easy, not very strenuous at all."

The NYC Department of Health backed the drivers during the testimony and opposed Avella's bill. It works alongside the ASPCA in conducting inspections and "monitoring the use of carriages to ensure a safe operation," according to Edgar Butts, the assistant commissioner of veterinary and pest control services.

The Department of Health has not cited any issues of health or safety that could support the ban, Butts said, noting that no working horses are younger than five, or older than 20 years.

There is no need, Butts said, to "destroy part of the ambiance of the city."

"We don't want to take away features that make New York more attractive when there is no need to," he said.

Avella has not set an exact time frame for passing the bill, explaining to Pet Pulse, "I really had to push for this hearing. Let's just see how it goes."

He has received some support from other members of the NYC council, but says that Mayor Mike Bloomberg's opposition to the ban has left people weary.

Avella believes, though, that as the ban receives additional media attention, more New Yorkers and tourists alike will support the cause. He recommends people talk to their councilmen and women about the ban.

"The average New Yorker who understands this issue will say, it is time for this industry to go," he said.

If the ban passes, New York City would join the ranks of London, Toronto, Paris and Beijing, which have all banned the practice.

Tell us what you think about “Carriage Ban Debated at NY City Hall Meeting” below. Share your favorite videos by clicking on the ZootooTV tab. Send us your story ideas by e-mailing us at news@zootoo.com or by calling us at 877-777-4204.



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989 comments found.
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ellen  L.
ellen L. (stevietoo)
8 months ago
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maybe we should get rid of the cars instead and their air would be cleaner
 
Lindsey B.
Lindsey B. (linzuar)
8 months ago
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Haha! Great point!
 
Sharon  W.
Sharon W. (weise1)
8 months ago
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It was a tradition, but with progress and the proliferation of motorized vehicles, it's probably time for a change. And more importantly, probably in the best (safest) interest for all involved.
 
shelbykellam
shelbykellam
8 months ago
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I don't know what to think
 
Karla M.
Karla M. (KarlaManson)
8 months ago
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Wonder how this will turn out. I agree with those here, this is not the way horses are meant to live. Yes, they are designed to help in the fields, but in fresh air, not polluted city streets, crazy drivers, and nasty people!
 
jennifer g.
jennifer g. (jgrover)
8 months ago
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Hopefully this terrible practice will be banned. I have seen those horses at work thousands of times, and I know what a horse, happy in it's work, is. These horses are not happy.
 
Doug K.
Doug K. (dbkuhn)
8 months ago
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No natives of the city ride in these carriages as far as I know. There is more than enough to do in New York without the carriages. ASPCA is right. I agree with banning them.
 
Libby M.
Libby M. (molloye05)
8 months ago
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Thank God someone is finally stepping up and trying to ban this inhumane practice. Those poor horses can't possible hold up to their daily lives under those conditions. I would NEVER agree to ride in one of those carriages because I won't never be able to forgive myself for paying the people running the operation. Terrible tradition that needs to go.
 
Tony C.
Tony C. (swampdog)
8 months ago
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Please, please, please stop this out dated practice. It is not fair to the horses. Watch the documentary "Blinders" on the carriage industry in NYC.
 
SARAH S.
SARAH S. (shadysadie)
8 months ago
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It will be interesting to see if this starts a nationwide trend!
 
Trudy M.
Trudy M. (rayauction)
8 months ago
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Not sure how I feel about this
 
mike h.
mike h. (mike2201)
8 months ago
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I guess I would want them only working short hours if they have to keep horse drawn carriages in NY
 
Kelly B.
Kelly B. (Kboz530)
8 months ago
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I am totally against horse-drawn carriages and don't think this "takes away from the attraction of New York" in any way. People don't go to New York to ride in a horse-drawn carriage. Let these poor animals rest!
 
Wayne D.
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I don't think a lot of the carriage driver's care about their horses at all. If they need a new one, they dispose of the one they have at an auction and get a new one from the auction. Heck, you can buy a descent horse to pull a carriage for a few hundred $$$. May even be tax deductible since it's to do with their job. Horses were not meant to be treated to noise and fumes and asphalt or concrete such as NYC. I can understand if they were only used in the park and treated with the highest respect but, lets face the reality of this... they are not!!!!
 
mabaer
mabaer
8 months ago
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I think if they keep them, they should be seriously monitored.
 
D&R
D&R (DanRita)
8 months ago
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If people would take care of their stock it would be no problem, but anytime an animal is "just a comodity" it is in danger.
 
anita M.
anita M. (stormie707)
8 months ago
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It is difficult for people to drive in NYC nevermind putting a horse at risk. I don't think it is safe for horses.
 
Sandy L.
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they just need to make it safer for the horses.
 
drspock
drspock
8 months ago
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It should be banned...if not, seriously restricted.
 
joan j.
joan j. (jjansson)
8 months ago
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A well cared-for carriage horse is no problem.
 
Marissa F.
Marissa F. (mfuerst)
8 months ago
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hmmm
 
Suzanne L.
Suzanne L. (CandysMom)
8 months ago
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I would like to see an update on this situation.
 
Kendalla
Kendalla
8 months ago
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I'm for it! NYC is not a horse-friendly place. The carriage drivers are just in it for the money and many don't take proper care of their horses.
 
Dan4cats
Dan4cats
8 months ago
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interesting
 
Mattbstl30
Mattbstl30
8 months ago
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not sure how I feel about this
 
Karen S.
Karen S. (pommom808)
8 months ago
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It seems like a carriage ban would be a good idea in light of ever increasing traffic in New York City. It is abusive to work horses in freezing temps just for a tourist attraction!!
 
Kelsey S.
Kelsey S. (SeeSpot)
8 months ago
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I think it would make more sense to moniter individuals more closely instead of closing down the industry. I think it is more abusive to make a horse stand in a stall, bored to death and with no exercise or attention, than to pull a carriage.
 
Catherine J.
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I can see both sides as well.
Certainly some horses are abused, but I imagine that most horses would rather work. I don't think it is inherently abusive to have a horse pull a carriage. Working 9 hour days in miserable conditions is another matter, but I doubt this is the norm.
 
Linda C.
Linda C. (lacaamano)
8 months ago
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This is such a hard industry to monitor, to ensure that horses are well cared for. I think many horses ARE well cared for, and treated fairly, but some certainly are not, and it ruins it for everyone else. Let's face it, horses were domesticated for our purposes, and many are happier working, than standing in a stall staring at a wall all day. That being said, there needs to be limits, consequences for mistreatment, and management of the industry - all which are hard to keep up with in a city the size of New York. It wouldn't break my heart to see the carriages go, but I can see both sides of the story.
 
Eric G.
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I'd like to see the carriages banned.
 
Anonymous
Anonymous
8 months ago
This comment has been removed.
 
junebugglet
junebugglet
8 months ago
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if the horses are treated humanely its fine i gues...but then again the city is not what it was like in the past. I imagine horses running free and wild but then again people keep working breeds as pets without working them in the city or the suburbs...
 
Alvin & Gretchen
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I see nothing wrong with carriage rides as long as the horses are taken care of. I think there are more pressing matters that need to be taken care of.
 
Julie F.
Julie F. (freycats)
8 months ago
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This is the 19th century and horses don't belong in a city. It's not quaint, it is cruel.
 
Lisa E.
Lisa E. (Lisae764)
8 months ago
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Any "industry" that makes a living off the backs of animals is unnecessary! We are an evolved society now, we are not in the early 1800's, there is no need for this. The bottom line is the almighty dollar, the welfare for the animals is always secondary. If the horse's health fails, get rid of it and get another one. This is the mentality of the "horse related industry" in general. These are barbaric and not animal friendly, they also include, breeding operations, racing, etc.
Horses have served man since the beginning of civilization, they deserve better! Without them who knows where'd we be!
 
Rob B.
Rob B. (luckyman4)
8 months ago
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has the nyc council nothing better to do?
 
pokey101
pokey101
8 months ago
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A city is a dangerous place for a horse, but I fear that if carriage-driving is banned, so will other various equine sports.
 
Pamela
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Cities are to busy for horse drawn carriages. Just like we don't like traffic, noise pollution why do the horses have to be subjected to it! Especially if they are not taken care of properly. Eventhough there have been reported 4 out of 54 horses in poor health is low it shouldn't be! Owners are more worried about making money than looking out for the health of the animal.
 
RICHARD V.
RICHARD V. (GIRICHARD)
8 months ago
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I think banning horse carriages in the city is wrong. It sounds like the industry is well regulated by inspections so the horses are not abused or mistreated.
 
Mary R.
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It looks like a rough life and it just doesn't seem right for those horses on those busy streets. Not all go through the park only!! Horses are not here for our entertainment! Think of something else to do on Valentine's Day people!
 
Rebecca W.
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We have carriage horses in Galveston and I'm against them there, NY and every where else.
 
Elisa D.
Elisa D. (esaday)
8 months ago
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I don't know where I sit on this one, either. I do think that the animals shouldn't have to work in freezing weather - like below 30* rather than 19* - and in weather above 85* - which with NY humidity is like 90-95*.
 
wshs530
wshs530
8 months ago
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im not really sure what side to take on this one.... :// it doesnt have to be cruel if they know how o do it.
 
Kim M.
Kim M. (kbw175)
8 months ago
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This is truly a shame that they are trying to get rid of the carriage rides. The horses are very well taken care of and are extremely regulated. Some of the horses doing this have been rescued from auctions that were going to send them to slaughter. So you tell me what's worse?
 
Crystal G.
Crystal G. (cgrange)
8 months ago
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They should ban this everywhere! Money should never be made by exploiting animals.
 
Elizabeth  M.
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I wonder if there has been any movement on this...I know many people think it's cruel but I don't think it has to be if done properly.
 
Michelle R.
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Are the horses really treated that badly?
 
Marcia W.
Marcia W. (mews)
8 months ago
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I've taken the ride but did not enjoy it - it was easy to see that the horses didn't enjoy it either.
 
Terri M.
Terri M. (tbarrel3)
8 months ago
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Carriage rides have been a part of New York for ever. These horses are well taken care of.
 
Larry S.
Larry S. (lsacks)
9 months ago
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Come on guy Carriage rides are just as much a part New York as muggings...soon their will be no reason to visit :0)
 
Marleydog
Marleydog
9 months ago
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Interesting article; any updates on what has been decided?
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