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Accident Heats Up Horse-Drawn Carriage Debate

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NEW YORK -- Coming off the heels of a horse-drawn carriage accident on the Upper East Side in mid-September, New York City Comptroller William Thompson released a follow-up audit report analyzing the carriage industry in New York City last week.

The ASPCA and New Yorkers for Clean, Livable and Sustainable Streets, an organization pushing for a phase-out of the industry, lauded the Sept. 21 audit report, which cites several infractions pertaining to licensing and lack of oversight from city agencies.

The document serves as “another resource for us in the animal resource community, coming from an independent source backing up a lot of the points that we raise,” according to Michelle Villagomez, the ASPCA's senior manager of Advocacy and Campaigns, but community organizers appear unconvinced that they will have imminent success in pushing a complete ban, or phase-out, of the commercial practice.

City Councilman Tony Avella -- also a candidate in the 2009 Democratic primary for New York City mayor -- first introduced a bill, Intro 658, to ban horse-drawn carriages in January 2009, as Zootoo Pet News previously reported. The bill has not gained considerable traction since its introduction, though, lacking a substantial number of co-sponsors. Animal activists are now seeking a new political champion for their cause, as the bill expires at the end of the year, and Avella is not running for re-election.

Yet Elizabeth Forel, president of the Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages, says she is not giving up on her fight anytime soon, and that it is just a matter of time before the public -- and political -- consensus shifts to the perception that the carriage industry is dated and dangerous.

“We’ve been doing this for four years now, and I know that anything worthwhile is going to take a very long time to do, passing the legislation to change something that is so ingrained in society here,” Forel said. “It’s just a function of waiting and not losing faith, and continuing to work on this issue and educate people about it.”

Forel founded the Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages -- which to date has gathered 40,000 signatures in support of a ban -- in 2005, as a standing committee of the coalition for NYC Animals Inc. Yet Forel says she first became aware of the horse carriage industry in the early 1990s, when she would observe the animals trudging through Midtown or Central Park.

“These horses look dispirited,” Forel said. “There was something about seeing them, working like that, that really touched me. Horses are not meant to walk amongst traffic and be kept in tiny stables on 11th Avenue.”

During Fiscal Year 2008, there were approximately 203 licensed horses, 283 licensed drivers, and 68 licensed carriages in New York City, according to the Comptroller’s recent audit. The NYC Department of Consumer Affairs licenses the horse-drawn carriages, and the city also oversees the treatment of the horses through routine inspections, as well as through a backing by the ASPCA.

Among other conditions, the horses are not able to work when the temperature reaches, or dips below, 18 degrees Fahrenheit, and rises to or above 90 degrees Fahrenheit. The privately own horses are provided with adequate living conditions and stables, largely located in Midtown on the west side, the follow-up audit found.

Yet the report also cited several violations and new concerns, such as horses working after their licenses have expired, and the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, one of the agencies that oversees the horses’ treatment, does not utilize and check off designated stable inspection forms.

The ASPCA has also largely fallen into the role as a default monitoring agency, though it technically does not preside over the industry or the horses’ well being, the report noted.

Around 19 horse carriage related accidents have been documented since 2000; the latest, on Sept. 19, occurred on 5th Avenue, where a taxi going south drove into a carriage. The carriage and taxi driver both required hospitalization, though the horse did not suffer any injuries.

That hasn’t been the case, though, in many of the other horse-drawn carriage accidents in NYC, Forel noted, saying that both people and horses have regularly suffered injuries in the past nearly 10 years. At least two horses have also died in accidents, according to the Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages.

While BANHDC has proposed a total elimination of the industry, NYClass is pushing for a general three-year phase-out of the commercial practice, replacing horses with hybrid or novelty, designer show cars. The horse drawn-carriage drivers will then be commissioned to drive the cars, circumventing the issue of potentially lost jobs.

“It will give the industry plenty of time to handle the issue, and give the workers time to transition to show cars, if they choose to do so,” explained Jake Dilemani, spokesperson for NYClass. “It won’t leave people in the dark.”

“Horse carriage drivers would be able to go right into the show car driving business, potentially for higher wages and a better working environment.”

City Council, though is not likely to reconsider a potential ban or phase-out of horse-drawn carriages until 2010, when recently elected, or re-elected, Councilmembers are seated.

In the meantime, Forel says that the Coalition will continue to lobby for their cause -- people can commonly spot them on Central Park South, distributing leaflets and educational materials.

“This issue isn’t going to go away on its own, and we are not going to give up until it does,” she said.

To learn more about horse-drawn carriages in NYC, and the movements to end the practice, visit BanHDC.org and NY-Class.org.

Amy Lieberman is a Zootoo Pet News correspondent covering the New York region and can be reached at alieberman@zootoo.com.



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74 comments found.
 
rjlupinskat
rjlupinskat
1 month ago
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I'd hate to see the horse-drawn carriage disappear completely, but I don't like them being in all that traffic. If all proper conditions could be met, with much-improved stabling, care, fewer work hours and adequate rest and pasture time, couldn't they be restricted to light work in Central Park only? Off the streets, yet still working, with safer, happier, healthier and more relaxed conditions.

 
Gail S.
Gail S. (GailC2704)
1 month ago
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I took a horse drawn carriage ride around Central Park this past summer. I became very aware at that point how many accidents had been occuring. I don't think that the horses belong out in the traffic area on the streets of New York. There seem to be so many so many horses. If they just had a few and kept them confined to Central Park it may be safer for the horses. The carriage drivers appeared to be grooming, feeding and providing water to their horses. They just don't belong in that crazy NYC traffic.
 
Katie M.
Katie M. (katielynn7)
1 month ago
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I agree, all that traffic has to be pretty stressful.
 
daryl b.
daryl b. (darylob)
1 month ago
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gail that is how i feel. they should be stabled in the park and only used in the areas of the park where there is no traffic to harm them
 
lilyrose
lilyrose
1 month ago
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Good point Daryl. City streets aren't safe and at least in the park it wouldn't be as stressful for the horses.
 
Lynn
Lynn (azcrazygirl)
1 month ago
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I don't think so either....if they could just keep them in central park, or something like that, where they wouldn't have to be out in the traffic...
 
Denise L.
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I'm completely against the horse carriage industry in places like NYC. I've personally seen how tired they look...even their hooves look horrible. This industry endangers everyone, including the horses. They're overworked & deal with dangerous traffic every day. I know that cape May, NJ has horse-drawn carriage tours, but you can tell that they're taken care of properly (unlike in NYC & Philadelphia). They look healthy, refreshed, & you can even see that they're watered & fed regularly. I went on one years ago, & the lady driving the carriage even told us to never support this industry in NYC & Philadelphia because of the way the horses are treated. As much as I support the ASPCA, I feel that they're not doing enough to protect these wonderful animals.
 
Lynn
Lynn (azcrazygirl)
1 month ago
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They have the HDC in Nashville too....and every time I walk by them, the horses look so tired....I always feel so bad for them....
 
arleen z.
arleen z. (arleen14)
1 month ago
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What i think is ... its really sad the way those horses are treated i have seen them and somedays they look like they are about to die in the heat .i really believe they should be in a nice green field instead of in traffic and terrible heat thats what i think
 
Katie M.
Katie M. (katielynn7)
1 month ago
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I agree.
 
Lynn
Lynn (azcrazygirl)
1 month ago
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me too!
 
Debra B.
Debra B. (DebraMeow)
1 month ago
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Any legislation is meaningless without the proper agency to enforce it. No teeth in any legislation means it is all bark and no bite. How many UN-licensed carriage operators are there in NYC? Is anyone checking for such documentation? As long as the ASPCA does its "spot checks", I don't see any NYC entity really dealing with this issue or taking it over.
Restricting the carriages to Central Park would still mean that the horses would travel city streets from their stables--unless the stables are relocated--and be in car traffic and car pollution. The horses' welfare should come first, but I think a carriage ride through Central Park is much better for the horse than going down a busy, multi-laned NYC street with so many more hazards like bicyclists, pedestrians, cars, trucks, police cars, fire trucks, and ambulances. I think it would be quieter in Central Park and have reduced exhaust fumes.
I don't know if there is any limitation on the number of hours that a horse can work per day in this industry, or how often the horse can pull its carriage in a certain time frame. There needs to be more than the outside temperature as a regulator of when or how often these horses work.
Actually, I am surprised that there aren't more accidents involving horse drawn carriages, but a carriage is more visibile and a bigger object than say a pedestrian or bicycle messenger. Mixing horse carriage traffic with vehiculalr traffic is simply a dangerous combination with a lot of risks.
 
jerZgirl
jerZgirl
1 month ago
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Excellent post.
 
lfusfeld
lfusfeld
1 month ago
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This industry exploits animals for a profit, plain and simple, and needs to be BANNED. Regulate it all you want, but the horses are still at the mercy of the carriage drivers and the owners of the company. That is unacceptable. Where profit is involved, animals should be left out of the equation.
 
Katie M.
Katie M. (katielynn7)
1 month ago
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I agree.
 
MysticBlueRaven
MysticBlueRaven
1 month ago
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In my opinion they shouldn't ban the out of horse drawn carriages. I feel that should limit the amount of cars that enter the heart of the city. We been using out of horse drawn carriages long before the car came along, and its the car that cause more accidents, pollution and health problems compared to horse drawn carriages. There has been 19 horse carriage related accidents in 9 years, how many car accidents occur in the same time frame. I don't see them banning cars.
I do agree that the welfare of the horse should come first and they need to at least change horse every 3 hours and need to have better living conditions. Also prohibiting the usage during bad weather conditions. I think if anything, maybe they should enforce stricter regulations and maybe specific routes where less traffic is likely to be, or working only at certain times.
Another thing to think about if they ban horse drawn carriages, is the policeman that ride horses in high traffic area will they also be band down the road?
 
Stephanie N.
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I completely agree with you.
 
lfusfeld
lfusfeld
1 month ago
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Yes, let's also ban police use of horses. They should ride a bike instead. What century is this, anyway?
 
lindsey d.
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what about service dogs for the blind or people with limiting disabilities? How about the search and rescue dogs that save lives all over the world? ban them too? The use of police horses, especially in remote areas is a very beneficial one. If it came down to it, if I was ever lost in the woods or mountains somewhere I would be much happier knowing that people with search dogs could find me and people on horse back could get to me when no other vehicles could. People still need animals, now more than ever in some respects. So maybe carriage rides are gratuitous, but service animals from guide dogs, search dogs, therapy animals, bomb and drug sniffing dogs that keep our soldiers and police safe are nessecary in my book and I for one thank God that they are our there every day protecting everyone.
 
lilyrose
lilyrose
1 month ago
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It has been proven that mounted police are much better at crowd control than officers on foot. I don't think banning mounted patrols is a good idea.
 
jackiejune68
jackiejune68
1 month ago
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For those on the fence about this issue, I ask: if the horses could tell us themselves what they wanted, what do you think they would say? That they enjoy being stabled in a small box stall 4 stories up? That they enjoy breathing exhaust and hearing noise all day long? I highly doubt it, and I would hope that a progressive city such as New York could commit to our moral obligation of protecting those who can't speak for themselves.
 
Kris
Kris (krisrep)
1 month ago
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Well said. The horses shoudl be the first consideration.
 
Lynn
Lynn (azcrazygirl)
1 month ago
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I agree
 
spongebrooke
spongebrooke
1 month ago
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I wonder how other cities compare with their care of horses that are within city limits and wish their info was available as well in this article for some balance. Is NY the only one with the care issues or are they being targeted?
 
DevilDawg
DevilDawg
1 month ago
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Good question.....
 
Gretchen S.
Gretchen S. (gbste)
1 month ago
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If another city treats its horses worse than NYC treats its horses, that doesn't proove anything, except that the other city should also ban this practice.
 
bowne
bowne
1 month ago
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Not sure how I feel about this. I've never been to NY, but I would love to see the city and maybe take a horse-drawn carriage ride. I think someone should make sure that the horses are being taken care of, but I'm not sure they should eliminate the industry.
 
lfusfeld
lfusfeld
1 month ago
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Please don't exploit the horses for your pleasure.
 
daryl b.
daryl b. (darylob)
1 month ago
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these carrage rides are so much a part of nyc maybe the could build a stable in central park and limit the carrages to the park where ther is no car traffic
 
Roz A.
Roz A. (Rozz)
1 month ago
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Then the horses would be just as limited, walking the same paths over and over. But it would better than being stuck in the middle of traffic.
 
Chellie G.
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Lame. Just improve the inspection of quality of life for the horses. Why is the answer to a problem always to get rid of it? It may be easier then coming up with a solution that can satisfy all, but it doesn't mean it's right.
 
Momba
Momba
1 month ago
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Really, I can't believe that horses can be happy in the city with all the fumes and congested traffic. We have lots of horses and buggies up here in Northern NY, but there is lots of fresh air, and it doesn't get very hot up here. However, I hate to see them out in below zero weather! We don't have much traffic, and the Amish are given consideration and people are careful of their horses and buggies. It is stated that there are other options for the drivers in NYC, so it isn't as if their jobs will be gone if they put the horses needs first.
 
Roz A.
Roz A. (Rozz)
1 month ago
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BAN the use of horse-drawn carriages!!!! The horses are solely used for the tourist trade, and are made to walk the same roads every day while forced to breathe gasoline emissions from cars, trucks and buses, since they usually ride closely behind them. I have seen horses out in extreme heat during the summertime, and am certain they are dying of boredom and traffic fumes. I do not agree with the argument that "they have to pull something or they are miserable". They are miserable being forced to parade around city streets for the sole purpose of human entertainment.
 
Kris
Kris (krisrep)
1 month ago
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Good points, Roz. It does not sound like safe or humane conditions can be provided for these horses.
 
Lisa B.
Lisa B. (Lisann326)
1 month ago
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You make a good point.
 
daryl b.
daryl b. (darylob)
1 month ago
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would stabeling and using them only in central park be more aceptable. there are a lot of people who ride their own horses in the park.
 
lindsey d.
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I think the central park idea is a good one. It at least gives them a viable option to keep the people working and provide better conditions for the horses until a more suitable option is found.
 
Lynn
Lynn (azcrazygirl)
1 month ago
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I feel that way too
 
Bonnie  M.
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I continue to have mixed feelings about his subject. I was in New York and saw these horses. I don't know if they were miserable or unhappy. I do think it's probably not good for them to breathe all that polution and be in all that traffic.

I guess I'm still not sure if they need to be banned. Can the ASPCA really stay on top of this? They have so much else they do. I still feel I don't know enough.
 
Kris
Kris (krisrep)
1 month ago
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I don't think the ASPCA can be expected to stay on top of this and if they are in favor of a ban, I think there is good reason.
 
Bonnie  M.
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Good point, Kris. Sometimes I feel sorry for the horses where I live that pull Amish plows and buggies. Sometimes the Amish are notorious for treating their horses like a machine and not a living breathing creature.
 
Kris
Kris (krisrep)
1 month ago
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That is something that I don't think gets a lot of attention - with them not using cars and relying on horses, how they care for them is very important. It is sad to hear of them being treated like machines.
 
daryl b.
daryl b. (darylob)
1 month ago
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bonnie i do agree with keeping them out of traffic but what about limiting them to the park and out of traffic
 
Bonnie  M.
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That's a good point ,too, Daryl. I would think the park would be better for them.
 
lfusfeld
lfusfeld
1 month ago
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From www.banhdc.org:

From time to time, well-intentioned people think they have come up with a compromise – Keep the horses in the park.

Here are a few simple black and white reasons why this will not work. Central Park is a landmark and the Central Park Conservancy would never allow this. In addition, the industry is opposed to it because they want to be on Central Park South and in Times Square to pick up business.

But let's explore this idea and see where it takes us. Presently, the horses live in cramped quarters in five multi-storied stables on the far west side of Manhattan. There are over 200 horses. One would assume that if this were to happen, the city would require that there be state-of-the-art stables built with turnout – something that does not now exist. At 1 – 1 ½ acres per horse for turnout, this would amount to over 200 acres required. And this does not even take into account storage, office space and stalls. Is the city willing to give up Rumsey ball field – or the Great Meadow for this use … for a tiny industry whose days are numbered … just how politically connected are they?
(more replies)
 
arleen z.
arleen z. (arleen14)
1 month ago
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great idea
 
Lisa B.
Lisa B. (Lisann326)
1 month ago
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I enjoy those horse drawn carriage rides especially in Chicago, but I always take them late at night when the traffice has died down. The owner said he uses padding under the horse shoes for shock resistence. Some places like the Bahamas the horses look a bit thin, but it is a good source of income for their owners. I feel for the horses safety.
 
Diane H.
Diane H. (catsecrets)
1 month ago
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I think some "traditions" just need to be ended for the sake of the animals. They should go the way of elephants in circuses, dancing bears, pony rides, petting zoos, and all the other abuses of animals for the sake of people's pleasure. NYC will still be as popular without them.
 
Bonnie  M.
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You do make some good points, Diane.
 
Roz A.
Roz A. (Rozz)
1 month ago
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Right ON, Diane!!
 
Kris
Kris (krisrep)
1 month ago
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You are absolutely right, Diane.
 
lindsey d.
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im sorry, but since when is letting a kid ride a pony or pet a goat abuse? What next? if you can't pet them, or ride them, who is to say you can own them? when is enough enough? I don't see the harm in letting little kids pet goats and sheep that are taken care of or ride a pony which most kids in cities will never get a chance to do. Maybe the horse drawn carriage is getting to dangerous, maybe not, we can fight about it all day because there is so much to take into account whether it be financial or animal welfare. But when you start labeling petting zoos and pony rides and abuse I think that is taking it a bit to far. you own an animal for your pleasure or else you wouldn't be on this site. So why is it wrong to let other people enjoy your animals too?
 
Diane H.
Diane H. (catsecrets)
1 month ago
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Whoops, I was going to post a link to a PETA webpage, but it didn't work and got really messed up for some reason. Oh well. Sorry.
 
spongebrooke
spongebrooke
1 month ago
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I don't see how they're being used as entertainment, they're simply doing what they were originally domesticated to do- work. It's just the environment in which they work that has changed. That's like saying the police dogs are being used as entertainment as well. I'm sorry, but there's just no comparison between that and a dancing bear or circus elephant.
 
DevilDawg
DevilDawg
1 month ago
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Diane your comment is fantastic.
 
arleen z.
arleen z. (arleen14)
1 month ago
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Thank you i couldnt have said it any better
 
Katie M.
Katie M. (katielynn7)
1 month ago
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Poor horses.
 
arleen z.
arleen z. (arleen14)
1 month ago
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DITTO THAT
 
lindsey d.
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while I agree that the accidents are tragic, every accident is, I do not believe that banning horse drawn carriages is the answer. I think banning the carriages would take away a large part of history and charm that many in the city and visitors to it adore. The horses are subject to routine checks of health, environment, and licensing. I think if anything, maybe they should enforce stricter regulations and maybe specific routes where less traffic is likely to be, or working only at certain times. I think there are a lot of options that could be looked at before just shutting down something that people love and is a huge draw for tourists. I really think there are other ways to continue a much beloved tradition but in a safer manner.
 
DevilDawg
DevilDawg
1 month ago
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I agree Lindey as it is a tradition, but the rules need to be alot stricter. I watched an episode of Animal Precinct where the officers had to get the horses out of the heat. I THINK that current rule was that if the temp reaches either 92 or 94 the horses need to go back to the stables.....SO WHY DIDN'T the carriage drivers adhere to that??? Those horses depend on their drivers for care and some just want that extra dollar. How horrible for the horses to be among the cars and fumes.....something HAS to change for the better.
 
Peggy W.
Peggy W. (4everfawn)
1 month ago
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I agree with you, Dawg. It is fine to have the horse drwn carriages but it has to be done with common sense. If the animal appears stressed at all they should not be "working". There should be specific stated rules and regulations for these animals.
 
Katie M.
Katie M. (katielynn7)
1 month ago
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I agree with you, the horses shouldn't have to work under stress.
(more replies)
 
Kris
Kris (krisrep)
1 month ago
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I agree, DevilDawg - I think the use of the carriages would have to be extremely limited to keep it safe and humane.
 
arleen z.
arleen z. (arleen14)
1 month ago
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Well said
 
lfusfeld
lfusfeld
1 month ago
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Tradition is a sorry excuse for exploitation. We have abandoned many traditions on account of being morally reprehensible, and this one is no different. Find another way to enjoy the city.
 
lindsey d.
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i take it you have never ridden a horse, or owned a pet. That would be exploitation too because it is for your pleasure not theirs that you keep them. But you wouldn't just let them roam free now would you? Horses were domesticated just like dogs, and when they were it was with the purpose in mind to work. I am all for humane treatment of all animals and finding ways to better a situation that obviously needs reformed but you can't just label everything exploitation. If you had ever ridden a horse or owned any kind of animal that would make you a hypocrite. so when you start your petition to release all parrots and tropical birds, dogs, cats, horses, rabbits and anything else people might have come to love then you can say you are fighting "exploitation" and not be hypocritical about it. People have left their mark on animals all over the world by domesticating them for our own purposes, all we can do is make the best of an irreversible situation and try to make sure that people that have animals for whatever reason, be it personal or profit, take care of them in a way benefiting the animals health and well being.
 
L M.
L M. (peanut1627)
1 month ago
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Poor horses--this is terrible!!
 
Katie M.
Katie M. (katielynn7)
1 month ago
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It is terrible.
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