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Dog Trainers' Methods Trigger Abuse Claims

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Controversy in the world of dog training, with old methods pitted against the new. Some call the old way of training abusive, preferring the newer method of encouragement and reward. One New York city-based trainer has come under scrutiny for his training techniques.

NEW YORK -- Dog training has never been more glamorous than in the past few years, following the 2004 debut of National Geographic Channel's hit series "Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan."

While the show has brought canine care and training to the forefront of American households, a shroud of confusion still engulfs the booming industry of dog training.

"You know there are TV shows, and they are very entertaining, but it's a TV show and really serious problems can't be fixed in a half an hour," said Barbara Dyer, New Jersey director of the Humane Society of America.

Among behaviorists and devoted animal lovers, a debate wages between various schools of thought, as the general public is stuck waffling -- trying to make sense of new terms such as clickers, "flooding" and being a pack leader.

That is where trainers, like New York City-based Tibor Feigel, are getting caught in the crossfire. Feigel runs the NYC-based company, Zen K-9, and he and his workers are often seen walking and training packs of dogs, big and small, in the public fish bowl of Central Park.

Although Feigel is often praised for putting his clients' dogs into a Zen-like state, his methods have come under scrutiny, launching an Internet campaign against him and his company.

One anonymous e-mail that was forwarded to Pet Pulse News read, " ... a pack walking company named Zen K-9 is using force to train and walk the dogs. They have been seen punching, kicking, hanging and two dogs died running in traffic as the head trainer was loading his van."

Other similar e-mails and online postings flooded the message board under the company’s demo on YouTube.com. However, Pet Pulse News was unable to track down or identify the people behind the e-mails.

Despite the reports that have surfaced online, mainly on YouTube.com, the New York Police Department and Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals have not received any formal complaints against Zen K-9.

However, Rescue Ink, a New York City-based rescue nonprofit, received approximately 300 complaints about Feigel's training techniques. Rescue Ink members say that they believe there is no merit to the claims, given the lack of first-hand accounts.

Rescue Ink also has not found a picture or video proving the alleged abuse.

Feigel says he believes that a female competitor is behind the attacks and has hired an attorney, who has virtually had most of the e-mail messages deleted from Internet message boards.

Feigel did say, however, that some people may misinterpret his techniques as excessive.

"Of course, people see us submitting the dog ... Submission is the question pretty much. Is it my technique that's harsh?" asked Feigel, who often trains dogs with behavioral issues.

"I believe in the very calm, but assertive energy and as long as we can keep that in front of them, there is no need for punching, kicking, hitting, or even using just a piece of stick to get them to where they need to be."

Contrary to the Internet claims, no animal has ever died in his care, says Feigel, who also uses assertive body language and a training collar for correcting.

"So old school, new school, I'm using everything that is out there," Feigel said. "I would never harm or abuse an animal."

Claims like the ones made against Feigel, regardless of their actual authenticity, are never to be taken lightly when first presented. In a separate case, one 30-year dog training veteran has recently learned that all too well, as he is now facing animal cruelty charges in New Jersey.

Abuse Claims Land Trainer in Court

Jeffrey Loy is accused of using, among other things, a cattle prod, a sling shot, a PVC pipe and his bare hands to curb a dog's behavior.

"I was appalled when I heard that and really shocked that anybody would do some of those things," Dyer said.

New Jersey SPCA's Cpl. Al Peterson says Loy's methods have been objected to by professionals in the animal cruelty, the animal behavior and the animal training industries.

The seven cases now pending against Loy date back to 1995, which is within New Jersey's statute of limitation. Cpl. Peterson says many people feared coming forward before now because of threats Loy made against them, their pets and veterinarians.

"One of the complainants had described to me that he was afraid to come forward for fear of a lawsuit," Peterson said.

All of Loy's clients signed non-disclosure and hold-harmless agreements. He was paid up to a thousand dollars a session. Authorities say some of them were referred to Loy by their veterinarians. As part of the Loy investigation, officials are looking into whether the vets knew of Loy's training methods and participated in the harassment of his clients.

Barbara Dyer, with the NJ State Humane Society, says fear should never be a part of dog training.

"A trainer really shouldn't dominate a dog or you," she said. "If your dog is afraid of the trainer, you should be afraid, also ... Any training methods that punishes or uses submission is out of date. Everything today is positive."

Knowing What's Abuse & What's Not

Usually consumers can trust professionals, but in an unregulated industry, pet owners are wise to be fully aware of various training techniques.

Dyer says any training methods that punish or use submission is out-of-date. Feigel, who does use submission as part of his training for certain dogs, falls within this category.

"They think submission is pinning an animal to the ground and keeping it there," Fiegel said of the kinds of methods which give submission a bad name. "Submission can just be me looking at a dog and he is going to respond by sitting down or laying down."

The Humane Society of the United States, the SPCA and law enforcement agencies all say any type of physical or mental abuse is unacceptable. This includes, choking, yelling or screaming, kicking, punching, and the use of shock collars.

"Anything that falls into the guideline of animal cruelty is not animal behavior modification, it is not training," said Cpl. Peterson.

The best method, according to the Humane Society of the United States, is encouragement and reward.

"Trust yourself, you may not quite understand what is going on, but if it doesn't seem right, stop it," Dyer advised. "Stop the session and speak to your trainer about it."

The HSUS also encourages pet owners to trust their instincts about trainers and to use common sense. If you suspect your pet is being harmed, report it immediately to either the SPCA or the local authorities.

Tell us what you think about "Dog Trainers' Methods Trigger Abuse Claims" below. Share your favorite videos by clicking on the ZootooTV tab. Send us your story ideas by e-mailing us at news@zootoo.com or by calling us at 877-777-4204.



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1578 comments found.
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Jackie W.
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Someone I know went to J. Loy for a dog with aggression problems. He told the owner to throw something at the dog, everytime someone rang the door bell. To make a long story short, the dog got worse and they stopped going to that wacko.
 
Pia S.
Pia S. (GuinnieGirl)
8 months ago
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Just think about what his suggestion did. Pair up the person at the door with punishment. Talk about the worst possible advice!!!
 
Gleb S.
Gleb S. (Carrot)
8 months ago
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Some quite reputable trainer suggested to throw at the dog when she barks a shake can with coins...
 
Pia S.
Pia S. (GuinnieGirl)
8 months ago
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I recommend taking the penny can and hitting yourself over the head with it instead.
(more replies)
 
Kristen S.
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Positive reinforcement is the way to go - that guy with the devices needs to go!!!!!!!!
 
Pam F.
Pam F. (pammyf)
8 months ago
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People need to check out trainers BEFORE they send their animals. Observe their techniques and ask for references.
 
sbdts
sbdts
8 months ago
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Positive reinforcement is always the better way to go.
 
Bonnie M.
Bonnie M. (emanrocks)
8 months ago
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So sad
 
Andy E.
Andy E. (andyman68)
8 months ago
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This is so wrong. Why would anyone let these creeps train their dogs.
 
hockeylover40
hockeylover40
8 months ago
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that is terrible and sad at the same time.
 
lallyke
lallyke
8 months ago
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this is horrible!
 
Barbara R.
Barbara R. (WillowsR)
8 months ago
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THIS IS SO SAD
 
Sheryl N.
Sheryl N. (sherylneal)
8 months ago
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This is horrible! No animal needs to be abused to be trained.
 
Jennifer
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what a debatable topic!
 
charlup
charlup
8 months ago
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There is no reason to hit a dog to get it to submit. I really can't stand to see stories of animal abuse. I can't watch the animal planet channel when these stories are on and I wish the news channels would use some discretion and not show pictures of this stuff. I wish I wouldn't have read this article
 
Erika  D.
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Interesting
 
UnoDiamante
UnoDiamante
8 months ago
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I think that using hour hand or object to HIT a dog is wrong, but dogs (especially ones that tend to be dominant) need to know their boundaries. Cesar Milan is awesome. His dogs are not afraid of him at all. They are well exercised so that they dont have excess, pent up energy, and they know their rules, boundaries and limitations. When he corrects them, it is a light tug on the leash or a firm (but not hurtful) touch. Submission is simply your dog accepting that you are the leader and he/she does not have to try to control everything. He uses dog sense because that is how a pack would naturally behave in the wild. There is one leader and the rest are content to follow and allow the leader to control the situation. Most dogs are born submissive because there can only be so many pack leaders, but if they dont sense a leader, then they try to take that position even though they were not meant to. This is where problems start.
Cesar is great, but using cattle prods and PVC pipes to physically hit a dog is not acceptable at all. And as for the positive training, yes, it has its place and should be used in all dog training, but it is better for fearful or shy dogs. More dominant dogs could easily take advantage of a lack of leadership and need a different type of training.

And btw, for the person talking about Victoria (her last name is Stilwell btw) from Animal Planet, if you think about what she does, her ideas are exactly the same as his, just easier to carry out. She said the dogs must be walked, and they must be given rules and know what is expected of them. They both have very similar views and values when it comes to dog training.
 
Pia S.
Pia S. (GuinnieGirl)
8 months ago
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Please refer to text books before you use words like dominance and submission since you are using them incorrectly, with all due respect.
 
Was just going to say that.A great deal is wrong with the whole statement.With all due respect also.
 
Gleb S.
Gleb S. (Carrot)
8 months ago
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if one hears the "dominance" and "pack theory" stuff all the time on TV, how else to react? people get most of their education from the Cesar TV shows. This logic kinda sounds right, although not true... Why some one like Ian Dunbar or Jean Donaldson have a show? Or they are not as TVgenic as Cesar with his Hollywood machine?
 
Pia S.
Pia S. (GuinnieGirl)
8 months ago
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Good point, Gleb. It is difficult when the words are tossed around so freely without understanding the true meaning or definition.
(more replies)
 
Susan
Susan (smhart71)
8 months ago
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Horrible! Just Horrible! and to think that these trainers are making money doing this kind of thing!!
Love and Praise is the key, I think, encouragement too, and a few tasty treats helps alot! Worked on my dogs!
 
karen p.
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there should be a standardized certification process for dog trainers. that would help prevent some of these stories from happening
 
Aubrey S.
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i hope all trainers are nice to the dogs ! because if they don't that is just sad! we trust these people with our dogs! then they harn them ! that's not right!
 
LaurenBozych
LaurenBozych
8 months ago
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Each dog responds to training differently so you need to match your training with the dog. Some dogs are more headstrong so require a corrective collar but others are so timid this type of training would be too excessive for them. If you feel uncomfortable with a type of training do not use it but try a more gentle version. Those will work too, just be patient. Odds are if the dog isn't doing what you want you aren't making your wishes clear to the dog. Most of the time the fault in training is with the human not the dog but we are too arrogant to believe this.
 
Pia S.
Pia S. (GuinnieGirl)
8 months ago
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If you need a so-called "corrective collar" - whatever that is - you are using force to get your point across and not your brain. I do not need a corrective collar with head strong dogs to get my point across. I'm smarter than the dog.
 
ronatha
ronatha
8 months ago
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Abusing animals is a crime and those who do it should be punished with jail time, fines, community work and a public apology. I am a proponent of earning a dog's respect--not forcing it upon your dog. "Old school" methods and lack of understanding the dog's body language is dangerous and may eventually cause more problems later on. There are some very popular trainers who although have some good methods, they sometimes miss anxiety cues, use alpha rolls, and/or depend strictly on pack leadership. They are unfortunately unaware that a strict pack leader is now known by the experts who do field research not to be whats occurring across the board in wolf/dog societies A combination of positive training, rewards, clear direction and mutual respect is the method that has shown to have the long term lasting effect we really need to be in a happy relationship with our beloved pets.
 
Rachel H.
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That's messed up.
 
Roberta A.
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No living human or animal should be trained with fear. How awful. Respect goes alot further. The pets' loyalty is a powerful thing.
 
Pia S.
Pia S. (GuinnieGirl)
8 months ago
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You bet, Roberta!
 
Erin H.
Erin H. (browniejoe2)
8 months ago
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All animals need love and discipline and no animal deserves to be abused.
 
isaacbonsai
isaacbonsai
8 months ago
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WOw!
 
Jerriann T.
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love and patience go along way in creating good behaviors. As does common sense but in reality common sense is not common most do not use it, it seems.
My take, is that a lot of this is heresay and can not be verified. In any case, follow your gut, make sure your fur baby is happy and safe. Just like with kids, every animal needs different types of disciplining but do it with love. I am not saying beat your fur baby by any means but some may need stronger authority and work than others.
 
Terri w.
Terri w. (sunnybroad)
8 months ago
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Why are they allowed to continue. Seems that this practices have been labels as cruelty to animals
 
Pia S.
Pia S. (GuinnieGirl)
8 months ago
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It truly amazes everyone. Yet, if no one comes forward and brings up charges, they can basically do what they want since there is not licensing.
 
Holly O.
Holly O. (OswaldH)
8 months ago
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You never use fear or physical force to train an animal! Would you do these things to your kids? So many people lie to make money, it may not even be true!
 
liz g.
liz g. (egiliberti)
8 months ago
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Michael Vick's Puppy school for hard knocks
 
Roonius
Roonius
8 months ago
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A great reminder to research which obedience trainers to use.
 
Stacey m.
Stacey m. (smeiler)
8 months ago
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Check your references people! You would check a reference for a baby daycare. Why not do the same for your pet?
 
ellen  L.
ellen L. (stevietoo)
8 months ago
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I would check out the trainer before I sent my dog to them
 
Amber I.
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Oh, and also, dogs do not become fearful when made submissive. A pack leader protects their pack, so dogs feel less insecure and more confident. I had a labrador charge my Ember and I stood between the two of them, like a pack leader would do. Ember was not stressed at all. I turned into a dominant dog and scared off the lab. If the owners of this labrador would be the alpha, he would not be defending his territory, because it would be his owners, and issues like him attacking my dog wouldn't arise. He should in no way beat or abuse his dog. But you can act dominant without even touching your dog and making it a much happier, submissive dog.
 
Pia S.
Pia S. (GuinnieGirl)
8 months ago
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And, what studies prove your hypothesis?
 
 
Nicole W.
Nicole W. (Tillimare)
8 months ago
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I've never cared for Milan (Neither does the American Veterinary Association from what I've read), I prefer the methods of trainers like Victoria Bergman on Animal Planet's It's Me or the Dog. Distraction, removing the dog from a situation, and most importantly, getting the dog the exercise it needs, are key. Maybe if more Americans would get up and play with their dogs regularly, we'd have happier better behaved dogs, and less of an obesity problem amongst humans.
 
Amber I.
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I really think the older man was abusing the dogs. However I see nothing wrong with the Zen K9 trainer. How is putting a dog into submission abuse at all?? A dog is still a wolf, and they expect to be treated as such. As long as you are not hitting your dog, there are ways to put it in a submissive state that are not cruel. I use a prong collar on both of my dogs. People feel this is outdated, but if you attain older dogs, you cannot always wait for positive training to take effect. I don't believe 100% positive training works for all dogs. In a pack there are consequences if you misbehave. I don't see how it is cruel when it is part of a dogs lineage? If your dog really had an issue with how you were behaving and they felt they were alpha I don't think they would positively train you. They would bite or growl at you. I have seen what a dominant dog can do. For the dogs safety all dogs should be submissive. I don't think people understand how dangerous a dog can be when it isn't trained.
 
Laurie T.
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well said, dogs need to have respect just like kids. I work with both and don't tolerate disrespect from either. Dogs can do a lot of damage if left to their own devices. Yet watch how they treat each other, seldom does a bite occur unless it is needed. Lots of ferocious sounding stuff though!
 
mabaer
mabaer
8 months ago
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I don't see any good in calling "training" something that can cause harm to your dog. They need to learn with love, praise and positive reinforcement. People should be very careful in choosing who they use to train their animals and who they listen to.
 
Anonymous
Anonymous
8 months ago
This comment has been removed.
 
Jacqie O.
Jacqie O. (OsborneJ)
8 months ago
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Definatly agree with Jenny P. and Dorothy H. :)
 
Dorothy H.
Dorothy H. (Dotshines)
8 months ago
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you have to do your homework and use common sence.
 
shelby d.
shelby d. (Shelby359)
8 months ago
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well said
 
Jenny P.
Jenny P. (jepauls)
8 months ago
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Like everything else, you need to do your homework before investing the time and money. Same thing goes with training measures. Take the time to check things out to make sure it's right for you and your pet.
 
Autumn S.
Autumn S. (lunachick6)
8 months ago
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This sounds like the kind of thing that's pretty hard to judge from the content of one new story. As a pet owner, I would be concerned about a lot of those techniques; however, it's my job to properly screen anyone who would have that type of influence over my pets. So some of the responsibility definitely lies with the owners.
 
Katherine
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very interesting
 
Jenison S.
Jenison S. (Silva)
8 months ago
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Judging training techniques is so difficult. Those that use dominance theory have some effective strategies, but it's when they go too far that it becomes an issue. There are other techniques that, yes, are old, but also seem to be the best option for some situations. I personally believe that positive reinforcement trainings are the best overall...but I also haven't had to deal with an extreme case.
 
Antonio S.
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That doesnt soynd like a good dog trainer.
 
Dale W.
Dale W. (dalewoman)
8 months ago
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Negative methods are out of date, positive training is far more effective. Milan should not be on the air, his methods are 20 years out of date! These people have no formal behavior training and don't know what they are doing. The are creating fearful dogs, and as we all know, a fearful dog can be a dangerous dog.
 
Marsha E.
Marsha E. (mevans1987)
8 months ago
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Using an authoritative voice to train animals doesn't seem like cruelty, however, using objects to physical bring animals to submission is clearly a different story. Why can't the owners train their own dogs??
 
Julie F.
Julie F. (freycats)
8 months ago
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What a jerk. Why do people take there dogs to him for training? Hope he loses business big time until he realizes you don't have to be cruel to train.
 
Alyssa G.
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This is a great article!
 
Chriss J.
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This guy really p***es me off. Even just taking the statements he said, I would never want him anywhere near any of my little ones.
 
Lorie S.
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So good to check out all trainers and their training methods before empoying them.
 
Hi H.
Hi H. (bluehydron)
8 months ago
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All good points, taking something to an extreme can be dangerous.
 
Jessica  S.
Jessica S. (star1029)
8 months ago
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I think training your dog is important but there is not an excuse to abuse your dog just to show him whose boss
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