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Dog Trainers' Methods Trigger Abuse Claims

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Controversy in the world of dog training, with old methods pitted against the new. Some call the old way of training abusive, preferring the newer method of encouragement and reward. One New York city-based trainer has come under scrutiny for his training techniques.

NEW YORK -- Dog training has never been more glamorous than in the past few years, following the 2004 debut of National Geographic Channel's hit series "Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan."

While the show has brought canine care and training to the forefront of American households, a shroud of confusion still engulfs the booming industry of dog training.

"You know there are TV shows, and they are very entertaining, but it's a TV show and really serious problems can't be fixed in a half an hour," said Barbara Dyer, New Jersey director of the Humane Society of America.

Among behaviorists and devoted animal lovers, a debate wages between various schools of thought, as the general public is stuck waffling -- trying to make sense of new terms such as clickers, "flooding" and being a pack leader.

That is where trainers, like New York City-based Tibor Feigel, are getting caught in the crossfire. Feigel runs the NYC-based company, Zen K-9, and he and his workers are often seen walking and training packs of dogs, big and small, in the public fish bowl of Central Park.

Although Feigel is often praised for putting his clients' dogs into a Zen-like state, his methods have come under scrutiny, launching an Internet campaign against him and his company.

One anonymous e-mail that was forwarded to Pet Pulse News read, " ... a pack walking company named Zen K-9 is using force to train and walk the dogs. They have been seen punching, kicking, hanging and two dogs died running in traffic as the head trainer was loading his van."

Other similar e-mails and online postings flooded the message board under the company’s demo on YouTube.com. However, Pet Pulse News was unable to track down or identify the people behind the e-mails.

Despite the reports that have surfaced online, mainly on YouTube.com, the New York Police Department and Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals have not received any formal complaints against Zen K-9.

However, Rescue Ink, a New York City-based rescue nonprofit, received approximately 300 complaints about Feigel's training techniques. Rescue Ink members say that they believe there is no merit to the claims, given the lack of first-hand accounts.

Rescue Ink also has not found a picture or video proving the alleged abuse.

Feigel says he believes that a female competitor is behind the attacks and has hired an attorney, who has virtually had most of the e-mail messages deleted from Internet message boards.

Feigel did say, however, that some people may misinterpret his techniques as excessive.

"Of course, people see us submitting the dog ... Submission is the question pretty much. Is it my technique that's harsh?" asked Feigel, who often trains dogs with behavioral issues.

"I believe in the very calm, but assertive energy and as long as we can keep that in front of them, there is no need for punching, kicking, hitting, or even using just a piece of stick to get them to where they need to be."

Contrary to the Internet claims, no animal has ever died in his care, says Feigel, who also uses assertive body language and a training collar for correcting.

"So old school, new school, I'm using everything that is out there," Feigel said. "I would never harm or abuse an animal."

Claims like the ones made against Feigel, regardless of their actual authenticity, are never to be taken lightly when first presented. In a separate case, one 30-year dog training veteran has recently learned that all too well, as he is now facing animal cruelty charges in New Jersey.

Abuse Claims Land Trainer in Court

Jeffrey Loy is accused of using, among other things, a cattle prod, a sling shot, a PVC pipe and his bare hands to curb a dog's behavior.

"I was appalled when I heard that and really shocked that anybody would do some of those things," Dyer said.

New Jersey SPCA's Cpl. Al Peterson says Loy's methods have been objected to by professionals in the animal cruelty, the animal behavior and the animal training industries.

The seven cases now pending against Loy date back to 1995, which is within New Jersey's statute of limitation. Cpl. Peterson says many people feared coming forward before now because of threats Loy made against them, their pets and veterinarians.

"One of the complainants had described to me that he was afraid to come forward for fear of a lawsuit," Peterson said.

All of Loy's clients signed non-disclosure and hold-harmless agreements. He was paid up to a thousand dollars a session. Authorities say some of them were referred to Loy by their veterinarians. As part of the Loy investigation, officials are looking into whether the vets knew of Loy's training methods and participated in the harassment of his clients.

Barbara Dyer, with the NJ State Humane Society, says fear should never be a part of dog training.

"A trainer really shouldn't dominate a dog or you," she said. "If your dog is afraid of the trainer, you should be afraid, also ... Any training methods that punishes or uses submission is out of date. Everything today is positive."

Knowing What's Abuse & What's Not

Usually consumers can trust professionals, but in an unregulated industry, pet owners are wise to be fully aware of various training techniques.

Dyer says any training methods that punish or use submission is out-of-date. Feigel, who does use submission as part of his training for certain dogs, falls within this category.

"They think submission is pinning an animal to the ground and keeping it there," Fiegel said of the kinds of methods which give submission a bad name. "Submission can just be me looking at a dog and he is going to respond by sitting down or laying down."

The Humane Society of the United States, the SPCA and law enforcement agencies all say any type of physical or mental abuse is unacceptable. This includes, choking, yelling or screaming, kicking, punching, and the use of shock collars.

"Anything that falls into the guideline of animal cruelty is not animal behavior modification, it is not training," said Cpl. Peterson.

The best method, according to the Humane Society of the United States, is encouragement and reward.

"Trust yourself, you may not quite understand what is going on, but if it doesn't seem right, stop it," Dyer advised. "Stop the session and speak to your trainer about it."

The HSUS also encourages pet owners to trust their instincts about trainers and to use common sense. If you suspect your pet is being harmed, report it immediately to either the SPCA or the local authorities.

Tell us what you think about "Dog Trainers' Methods Trigger Abuse Claims" below. Share your favorite videos by clicking on the ZootooTV tab. Send us your story ideas by e-mailing us at news@zootoo.com or by calling us at 877-777-4204.



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1578 comments found.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 20 Showing page of 20 Go
 
Margie L.
Margie L. (MsLefty)
8 months ago
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This just makes me want to cry. Seriously.
 
inga l.
inga l. (bsgirl)
8 months ago
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Don't drop this article. This is too important for us to stay on top of.
 
Kimmy B.
Kimmy B. (kimmybis)
8 months ago
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Unbelievable!
 
Renada L.
Renada L. (rliving)
8 months ago
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find out who the trainer is first. wow
 
inga l.
inga l. (bsgirl)
8 months ago
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What? The name is there.
 
Mark I.
Mark I. (JCCAMG)
8 months ago
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I think dog owners should be an active part of their dog's training - training is "communication" and dog and owner both need to learn . Also, a bad trainer would think twice about using a cattle prod with the owner right there.
 
Francine L.
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Every owner is responsible for deciding what type of relationship they want with their dog. If any training method makes you uncomfortable, you're better off leaving and losing your money than progressing with a method you don't feel is safe or fair to your dog.
 
inga l.
inga l. (bsgirl)
8 months ago
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Good advice, Francine.
 
Marty T.
Marty T. (MTrezza)
8 months ago
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Exactly, Francine.
 
Dan4cats
Dan4cats
8 months ago
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It is best to research your trainer first
 
isaacbonsai
isaacbonsai
8 months ago
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WOW!
 
Liz B.
Liz B. (lbibclc)
8 months ago
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training is as much a relationship with the animal than anything else. Having a dog trust you not to hurt them makes training so much better
 
cassie r.
cassie r. (zues)
8 months ago
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Dog trainer abusing or not abusing... its just not right... and yeahh why wouldnt they just show the owner how to train the dog????
 
Washy
Washy
8 months ago
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A real trainer would teach you how to teach your dog, not take it out of your hands and train the dog themselves.

Otherwise the dog might act brilliantly for the trainer, and upon return to you act completely off the wall and not listen to a thing you say.
 
Marty T.
Marty T. (MTrezza)
8 months ago
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You got it!
 
Debi M.
Debi M. (luvguins)
8 months ago
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How can basic dog behavior be "out-dated"? I'm getting tired of these "professional dog trainers" stances that their method is the only way. We need to be the pack leaders of our dogs. This does not mean abuse of course and it should not be confused with such.
 
Marty T.
Marty T. (MTrezza)
8 months ago
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I believe what they are referring to, Debbi, is the old alpha roll overs, dominance downs and other harsh methods that were used to train dogs long ago. My first dog was trained using these methods and with reward-based training, I found it much more enjoyable. Now, I am NOT a trainer and can't speak on their behalf, but I believe this is what they mean.
 
cathy b.
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I don't believe training should include hurting the animal.
 
Rachel S.
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dominance and submission should never even come into the conversation when speaking about training dogs. Yes, dogs have a social hierarchy that they adhere to in their lives, but that has no bearing on how 'trainable' a dog is.
The best way to train a dog is the way that opens up the dog's mind, allows him to understand what we are asking him to do, and builds a confident, trusting relationship between human and dog.
Forcing a dog to do what we want is not training. It's management and teaches nothing but fear and mistrust.
 
Marty T.
Marty T. (MTrezza)
8 months ago
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Agree. Dominance and submission are, as we have learned, behaviors and not methods. Thanks.
 
littlezo
littlezo
8 months ago
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Hopefully nobody is hurting dogs while training them.
 
Di
Di (di6)
8 months ago
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Well reported Zootoo! Whatever the stance pet owners take on this issue, it's wonderful that this site has brought the topic to light!
 
lorrianneadair
lorrianneadair
8 months ago
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I have never heard anything positive about professional dog trainers...
 
Becky B.
Becky B. (mookienon)
8 months ago
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I hope they get to the bottom of this and he is not hurting any dog in any way.
 
Amber M.
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You need to be the alpha. This means that your dog should be submissive to you. You dont have to beat them to make them that way. If my dane if misbehaving all I have to do is point my finger at the floor and he immediatly stops and lays down
 
Marty T.
Marty T. (MTrezza)
8 months ago
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I can't say I agree with you on this one. I prefer to be my dog's leader and really don't want a dog that exhibits submissive behaviors. I like hearty dogs that have "umf" and spunk. I want them to listen, but do not need them to submit. I think that's what you are saying, correct?
 
Beth K.
Beth K. (bkramer)
8 months ago
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Submission does not mean aggression or abuse
 
Beth K.
Beth K. (bkramer)
8 months ago
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What a monster to do such a thing to innocent animals
 
Janis  H.
Janis H. (JanisHunter)
8 months ago
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Common sense is great, but unfortunately there is alot of that lacking when it comes to animals. Thats why Ceasar spends so much time visiting these dingy celebrities. Submission does work well on extreme cases but does not have to include abuse.
 
Alison K.
Alison K. (rose85)
8 months ago
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Hmm...
 
Bridget L.
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Encouragement and reward work with the majority of dogs however, aggression issues are a whole 'nuther ball game and I don't believe you can clicker train or anything along those lines with these dogs. I am a FIRM believer in submission training and no, that doesn't mean pinning them to the ground. If I give my dog "the look" she stops what she is doing immediately and sits or lies down depending on the situation. I AM THE ALPHA...period. This translates to my horses too. I do not condone cruelty or beatings - however, I do not think working with problem dogs is all sunshine and unicorns either. Until there is proof of the first trainer's alleged abuse, I will reserve judgment.
 
Marty T.
Marty T. (MTrezza)
8 months ago
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There is proof. They don't issue a warrant unless there are facts.
 
christy m.
christy m. (rblcm)
8 months ago
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Was there any proof to any of these theories?
 
Marty T.
Marty T. (MTrezza)
8 months ago
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Yes. Lots.
 
Franksid
Franksid
8 months ago
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It's so hard to know where that line is - obviously I think things like cattle prods & pipes - anything that causes pain is way beyond what's acceptable and yes that in my mind is abuse.
 
Barbara S. R.
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WHO CAN WE TRUST?
 
Amy P.
Amy P. (Magpiemommy)
8 months ago
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Not sure what to think on this....seems abusive

 
Terri M.
Terri M. (tbarrel3)
8 months ago
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I would never let these people near my dog.
 
Susan P.
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Anyone can call themselves a trainer, doesn't mean they are. I'd like to know what they mean when they refer to a training collar. The pronged collars are cruel but some people use them and refer to them as training collars. They cause pain, not train. Abuse isn't training.
Clicker training isn't cruel, training with treats isn't cruel. Using a choke collar properly isn't cruel, using it properly I say, not dragging your dog on one while it's choking. You have to learn proper techniques. Dogs want to please you, it's their nature. Recognize when the dog is behaving due to fear or just bad manners or they aren't yet educated to our language. First educate yourself on dog language before you try to teach your dog.
 
gmt725
gmt725
8 months ago
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Wouldn't let them near my dog.
 
Megan R.
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Isn't this kind of like the spanking your child as a punishment theory? It's basically the same concept, except it's your pet being punished. I think it's just like with spanking, there will always be controversy about training a pet if it involves swatting.

I DO NOT believe it's punishment at all if there has been hanging and / or death, that is not punishment, that is abuse! Not every animal reacts to the same form of training.
 
Lindsey B.
Lindsey B. (linzuar)
8 months ago
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Exactly. Something that results in death is, without a doubt, abuse.
 
DebraJ626
DebraJ626
8 months ago
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Training methods need to match the temperament and style of the dog (and even the human) A trainer, from any philosophical backgroun should come up with a customized plan that works for both owner and dog.
 
Dawn M.
Dawn M. (Laharet)
8 months ago
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This is why it's important to interview any trainer you "leave" your dog with and understand what style of training your dog will receive. Even with group or private training you should have a full understanding of what methods your trainer will teach you. I believe positive reinforcement and your dog knowing you are the pack leader usually work well.
 
deaddogs
deaddogs
8 months ago
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Everyone should make up their minds for themselves and watch all kinds of training before they pass judgement.
 
Ashley E
Ashley E (AEW26)
8 months ago
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It definitely sounds like abuse.. however, at the same time, there seems to be no apparent evidence to prove that abuse has actually taken place. For the betterment of the animals in his care, I definitely think he should be investigated and watched - and hey, if he has nothing to hide.. then nothing will surface. It's as easy as that.
 
LauraSpell
LauraSpell
8 months ago
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sounds more like abuse to me
 
Leah H.
Leah H. (jerseydogs)
8 months ago
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We need to be using brains over brawn.
 
Cathy  L.
Cathy L. (cathylord)
8 months ago
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More people need to be exposed that are behaving like this. Let's open our eyes people. Our kind animals are precious to us.
 
helpusinrapidcity
helpusinrapidcity
8 months ago
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I think this guy needs some training....misunderstood...I doubt it...he sould be charged with animal abuse....
 
Kristin H.
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That man was never training it has and always be abuse!
 
Kelly  P.
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i would use the new way of training.
 
Marty T.
Marty T. (MTrezza)
8 months ago
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Agree, but this is not training, it's abuse.
 
Amanda  M.
Amanda M. (almatt06)
8 months ago
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this is the same debate as disciplining a child is the older way more cruel or does the do nothing way accomplish anything i think that there is a happy medium where no abuse is taking place but that strict rules allow the dog to learn
 
Tara A.
Tara A. (taramabbott)
8 months ago
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Great analogy..
 
alex u.
alex u. (thatweirdkid)
8 months ago
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such a shame
 
Barbara S. R.
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NOTHING SURPRISES ME
 
Lisa A.
Lisa A. (Psydny)
8 months ago
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The first part of the story was horrible and obviously abusive. But what the video showed about the Zen K-9 methods was not. Maybe there was more to the story. My first dog was a Cocker/Beagle who had been abused by children. He was 3 months old and completely out of control. He wanted to obey but couldn't calm himself. I used "mommy wolf" methods I had seen on National Geographic. I would knock him gently on his side and hold him down while he calmed down. When I let him up he could pay attention. It saved him from the shelter. When he was older, he sometimes decided to ignore me. If we were at the dog park and he decided he didn't feel like coming when called, I would run up behind him, knock him gently down and hold him while I firmly explained that he had done something wrong (which he already knew!) My friends questioned my methods. Then my roommate got a chocolate lab who grew to be enormous. He never obeyed and died when 2 years old after being hit by a car because he wouldn't come. The video said you shouldn't dominate your dog. I disagree to a point. They need to know that you are the head dog. It is unsafe for your dog if they won't listen to you.
 
SARAH S.
SARAH S. (shadysadie)
8 months ago
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It is a shame that someone's reputation can be tarnished by pure internet gossip. There is no evidence whatsoever that the first trainer in the article did anything bad, it's just people jumping on a bandwagon.
 
Marty T.
Marty T. (MTrezza)
8 months ago
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Oh, yes there is my dear!
 
Debi M.
Debi M. (luvguins)
8 months ago
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You're absolutely right. That article was slanted.
 
jennybarton
jennybarton
8 months ago
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I by no means think that a dog should fear a trainer but there are instances that I believe a firm hand is needed (I don't mean an abusive hand and I don't mean a firm hand as in hitting). I think a successful training philosophy is one that puts trainer in the alpha position.
 
psitts
psitts
8 months ago
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I trust the ASPCA and their investigations.
 
Nicky R.
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the truth will come out eventually, either good or bad.
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