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You are right. Placing them a distance away doens't mean the rescue or shelter is less committed. In fact, I think quite the oppostie as they are not always easy to arrange.

All very good points. And out of 100 adoptions we've done out of state 0% have been returned and we hear from everyone.

In our case, we have a prison program and many people want our trained dogs. So, in all fairness, we may have more requests for out of state dogs than other shelters.

And just another thought - why are state lines such a big deal? From our shelter it is about 3 hours to Indianapolis, Pitssburgh and Cleveland and only one of those cities is here in Ohio.

The only out of state return was with a rescue group who pulled a dog and then decided it was too big for them to place easy. The dog was like 40 pounds. He hitched a ride from their state to the border of our state and we picked him up. No big deal.

It is our agreement with other shelters and rescues, if the dog does not work out, we want it back. Same with adopters.

I would also say most of our adoptions are within a day of driving. The longest distances were Waterville Maine and a city in North Carolina. Several in the state of New York, Several in chicago. Several in Canada.

And if we can get more and more shelters to work together, we can help more animals. I understand the need to know what happens to the animal. But if each shelter agrees with the adoption process of "not an outside pet, fence or no fence, etc." then we can get more animals into homes.

I just sent three of our dogs to another shelter in our neighboring county. We had Cricket since Sept 2006. She is a wonderful dog, loves other dogs, housebroken, but nobody has looked at her because she is hyper. Malibo is a pit bull who can climb out of the 9 foot kennels, loves other dogs, but been with us since June 2007. And Horus who was too scared at prison. They already have great adoption process which I reviewed and made sure it was similar to ours and it is. They also understand if not adopted or a problem, we want the animal back.

We need to work together for the animals.

Thanks for the compliment. I do what I can and I try to show others just how fun the driving and meeting of other like minded people can be. The feeling of knowing that I've helped get a doggie (or kittie) to it's forever home is wonderful. I'll be back on the road the day after we get back from Florida. I love it . Driving to Save Lives.

I do love my Doggie Transport Guy. He is the best in allowing me to full fill my dream of working with animals and has jumped in with both feet to help where he can.

And glad you liked the journal. Just want folks to think outside the box or rather their own shelter and see if we all can work together, we can help more animals.

I so totally agree with you. I think discussion is good and hopefully we can use this forum to build relationships. Together we can accomplish alot!

We do. He lvoes to drive and we and others have a need so it dovetails together nicely.

Curious, what is your return rate?

If the effort was made to get the dog there, the effort will be there to get it back. All of these dogs are also microchipped and we continue to be listed so that we can track if that dog has been turned into another shelter. It has never happened out of state but we've had a couple happen locally...again, an address doesn't always make a difference.

I agree with you Beaglemutz. And to point out the no-kill differences, even in passing has nothing to do with this journal. I think it is provencial to think that the perfect home for a homeless cat or dog is only in the shelter's nearby area. And the comment about money - well it is certainly more cost effectively to adopt locally, so it doens't really matter if someone is kind enough to pay it forward for the next transport.

And one more thing. So far, all of our out of state and out of country adoptions have occured within reasonable driving distance. I can assure you that if there was ever a need there would be more than a few people lined up to go get the animal.

We work with rescues and shelters near the adoptions so there really isn't any issues in that area. Our relationship with them is such that should the need ever occur (and so far it hasn't) they would arrange for a place for the animal until transported back to us.

It all comes down to a difference in philosophy, but in the end what matters is a good match and the forever home these pets deserve.

And it also is stated in our adoption contract that if they can not keep the pet, they are to call us first and not give it to anybody, not even a friend. They are not suppose to take it to a shelter.

The reason is because we will take it back no matter what. We work with over 100 rescues some in our state and in many, many other states and in Canada. By working with all of them, they are willing to work with us if one of our out of state adoption did not work out. Most of those rescues would foster the dog until we can get it back. Or would help us place it if we wanted them to. We also have driven long distance to adopt it out, we would drive long distance to get it back if need be. And my long distance I am talking over 9 hours one way or more if need be.

And to just rely on adoptions in your area must be nice. Seeing that we come from a small town, rural county, we don't have the number of people that some of the bigger shelters in bigger cities have. When you compare our whole county population of 41,496 to just Denver, Colorado of 554,636. That is a difference of 513,140. BIG Difference in the number of families who might be looking to adopt.

So maybe if you are in a BIG city with lots of population, you might not have to adopt out of state. But being in a small, rural county, we are looking for good homes where we can find them. And trust me, we have found several great homes out of state.

And we would love to network with others to help them get more animals adopted. That is if they would want our help.

And to go back to MATT'S comment.

Our shelter is also committed to the animal from the time we take in our door as a life long commitment. We have taken back dogs after years in a home because there is a death in the family, moving, divorce, whatever.

And No, I don't like the way most no-kill shelters are set up. Once full, they don't take in any more animals. Some are picky about what they take in and so on. I never said all are like that. With our shelter, we believe no shelter should be no kill until every shelter in the US is not putting down for space. And by this I mean, open admission all the time and busting your butt to get them all out. Never turn away an animal because you have no space left. Until that happens, then nobody should be no kill.

As for our contract, we do follow ups calls. We check to make sure you took the animal to the vet as stated in the time frame on our contract. If we found out that the dog is a problem to neighbors, we will first talk with the owner and if it is not working out, we will ask for the animal back. But again, we have not had that problem.

And we don't just look for folks with money to adopt from us. Not sure where you got that until you are referring to the last adoption in NY across from Central Park. She paid the same amount of $105 like everybody else does to adopt from us.

Again, sounds like we do the same as you as far as placement, we are just willing to look out of state for those good homes.

And you are right that even in state adoptions is no guarantee that the folks will return the animal to you.

Again, We work really hard to place dogs in proper homes, with good families, have a back up plan in place if it does not work out and most of the time, we end up with great supporters of our shelter.

If you don't look beyond your own backyard, you will miss out on a lot of cool stuff and on meeting nice people.

Of course, I cannot speak for Matt, but do you think he meant that shelters should not permit an adoption simply based on the fact that the potential adopter has the money at hand? Obviously, your shelter does not participate in that practice. However, from firsthand experience, I know that some do.

I have witnessed a mother surrendering an eight-month-old cat because "it's spraying everything." She immediately turned around and bending into her two small children's faces said, "Okay! Now let's go pick out a kitten for each of you." And she did. She was allowed to adopt two kittens. Basically, as long as the adopter had a warm body and the cash, the adoption took place at that particular shelter. The best part was that she completed applications and then contracts on each of the kittens. Clearly, that was a waste of paper.

You are right. Not all shelters are the same.

I know there are shelters like that out there with the "show me the money" attitude. But we don't do that. I have even had folks offer us more than the normal adoption fee to get an animal from us. Does not work that way.

We do the first app in has first dibs. Does not mean you will get the animal, does not mean you are approved. Means while we are checking over everything, the dog will not be adopted out from under you.

That is hard for some folks to understand because of our shelter is open admissions. We operate the county animal shelter. We always have to take in strays. But that does not mean, we careless about the animals and want them out as quickly into any home is fine. We will check the applications. We deny if it is not the right home or family. No animals will be an outside animal unless it is one we know for a fact would be better outside. Example of that was a coonhound who was completely scared of being in a building to the point of making itself sick. He liked the outside kennels. We tried the prison program and he was kicked out after 3 days. He would refuse to go into the building so a couple guys would have to carry him while he would try to get away from them. We adopted him in a home with a 6 foot private fence, 3 other dogs to play with, a dog house that was handmade with insolation and doorflip. To this day, the dog will only go into the mud room and stop. Does not matter if the other dogs are in the rest of the house. He just can not do it. That was 6 years ago.

But back to the comment, yes, we know there are shelters who will have folks fill out an app, pretend to look at it and the person is out the door in minutes. Not with us. It might be 3 days before you get that animal. Maybe sooner if not busy, but don't bet on it. Plus that stopped all the impulse buys as we call them.

Wish all shelters would take more responibility for the animals in their shelter.

Working together is what I am trying to get at. We all need to network to help the animals. I have done HVs for other rescues if they don't have a rep in our area. And most rescues have a HV form for the person to use.

Again, the networking is so important. Glad you get it.

This is why we use other rescues to do a HV if we think it is needed. We do vet checks, personal reference and check with animal control of that person's area. If we think a HV is needed, we get a rescue group to do that for us. We check out things completely. And it states on our application if they will allow a home visit. If they say no, we don't adopt.

And we also only have about 4% return because of our wonderful prison program. We are able to match up a dog with a family easier.

And I still don't understand where you get that the dog was not spayed/neutered. No where in my comment did I say that. I stated that the northeast has strict spay/neuter laws which means they don't have many unwanted litters of puppies.

Betty, your journal says "It is my understand that because of the strict spay/neuter laws in the northeast area, more folks are looking to the midwest for dogs." That does make it sound like people in the Northeast are looking for intact animals that can only be found in the Midwest due to the "strict spay/neuter laws" in their own area.

Since that's not what you meant, why are the Northeast people looking for animals from the Midwest? Aren't there plenty of homeless/unwanted animals closer to home within 200 miles? I know from reading another journal that Vermont transports animals into their state while Indiana has a "surplus." However, I have no idea why this is. I'm hoping you can enlighten me.

Signed,
Curious in Colorado

Seems some folks still don't get the whole "out of state" adoption. So let me explain a little more.

In the Northeast, there are strict spay/neuter laws. They don't have the unwanted litters of puppies and dogs because of this strict law. So if there are no unwanted puppies or young dogs in your shelter, where do you go. Out of state. This is why we adopt out of state.

And PetSmart has set up what is called the Rescue Waggin' Program. A pet transports dogs from areas of high pet overpopulation (most are facing enuthanasia) to shelters in areas where adoptable dogs are in demand. The program operates under professionally developed standards for the shelters sending and shelters receiving, spay/neuter, animal health and also humane transport. Funding to expand spay/neuter services is also available for the shelters sending animals to help with the pet population. Funding and professional consultations are available to help improve shelters and help with operations.

The Rescue Waggin has saved over 18,000 dogs since 2004. The program is mostly in the Midwest, Northeast, and Great Plains areas.

go to http://www.petsmartcharities.org/programs/rescue-waggin.php

Now maybe some shelters thinks it is silly to keep taking in from other states. But if you don't have the supply, folks will go some where else to find it. Which is why, our shelter does out of state adoptions. Sometimes, what folks are looking for is not in their local shelter. Plus we have the prison dogs which are trained in basic commands, housebroken, crate trained and we can tell you its habits, likes and dislikes based on their time in prison.

You can get a dog out of a shelter and not know if it likes water, digs, gets on furniture, barks alot, is food protective, plays fetch. But with a prison dog, I can tell you those things. So if you are picky in what you want, you will look until you find it. And to be honest, I hope our shelter has it.

Oh and if we don't, we work with over 100 rescues and 12 or more shelters, and we will help you find it. Even if we have to go get it and bring it to our shelter, and we will even send it to prison for no extra charge.

I understand the concept of state-to-state adoptions. Being unfamiliar with the intricacies of shelter/rescue operations across the U.S., I did not realize why there is a shortage of adoptable animals in Northeast and/or why the Northeast finds its pets in the Midwest. Thank you for taking the time to clear that up with a simple paragraph that I'm sure everyone can understand.

And I don't think any part of this is silly at all.

We spay/neuter all our animals before placement 100% done. So folks wanting an intact animal from us will never happen.

The laws in northeast are very strict on spay/neuter. Therefore, there are not the extra puppies or young dogs needing to fill homes. There are many shelters in those states that will take animals from midwest and farther.

Check out the PetSmart Rescue Wagon for more info on it. We don't qualify for the rescue wagon because we only put down 11% of what comes into our shelter and those are unadoptable animals. But I know several shelters who use the rescue wagon and love it.

Also check out the below for more info.

http://doglawsatlarge.blogspot.com/2008/02/ct-asda-connecticut-spay-neuter-task.html

Because Vermont has better laws imposed concerning spay/neuter, Indiana does not. Ohio is in the same boat. There are several counties where shelters do not spay/neuter prior to adoption. We do and work with other underfunded counties to encourage them to find a way too. This is all an example of how spay/neuter laws CAN and DO make a difference. Less to choose from in those parts of the country so they'll pull from other areas in the country to get what they want.

That's interesting. The woman from Vermont didn't seem to have any idea as to why there weren't enough shelter animals in her own state to adopt, while in Indiana there were too many. I learned something new today. Thanks.

I believe that we had a couple from New Hampshire that wanted a puppy and we had a mix they were interested in. We approved them and they drove from New Hampshire to our shelter to adopt.

We had a couple from Colorado as well.

We do 100% spay/neuter. She wanted a dog with energy and could not find a medium/large size dog that fit the bill. She wanted a border collie.

Betty- wasn't the dog also 'prison trained?'

Yes it was in the prison program which is why we were able to match the lady with the right dog.

You never know where you will find your soul-mate. Again, any animal that finds a home means it's a great day, whether it be one of ours or someone elses, another life has been saved. Again, an address should not stop this from happening.

The animals need to have their rabie vaccine with certificate. Some require a health certificate but will allow a record of all shots.

It is worth all if you find the right one for your home.

Agreed, why turn down a loving home just because of their address? We adopted one special beagle to a wonderful lady in Toronto. Wouldn't you know it, a person from our group was invited to have lunch with her when he was on another trip up there with another dog. He couldn't say enough about her kindness and love for Bonzi (our now Canadian beagle.) She is an author and his picture was taken for the book jacket photo. How can you turn something like this down just because they live a distance away? I agree, good and bad can happen anywhere. I'm happy to say that this situation is one we are very proud and honored to have played a part.

Beaglemutz is right. The lady in NY wanted a high energy young dog and there was nothing in her area. She had even fostered a couple times for a rescue group who could not find her what she was looking for. So she looked out of state.

Canada does not get alot of coonhounds. We have placed over 8 in the last 2 years up there to wonderful homes. They don't get homes around here much because folks here view them as a hunting dog, not a family pet.

Black labs get adopted quicker in New York because there are not that many in shelters. So we can get them placed up there easy.

So some of the rescue groups might not have what you are looking for. So go out of state.

But what if your perfect pet isn't in your backyard? Sometimes the pet you are looking for may be a distance away and any pet finding a home is a good thing. It's not about 'avoiding' it's finding that special family member. Do people not do the same thing? Should we only date and be friends with people in our own community?

Secondly, just because they are a distance away doesn't mean you can't check them out just the same.

I think you've gotta get that dog or cat into the right scenario to increase their chances of finding their perfect family. Whatever it takes.

Oh I agree and we work with rescues and shelters close by and further away. And it's true, sometimes what you are looking for isn't close by. The important thing is to make a good match.

I think it shows that the best home may not be around the corner.

You are right. Hounds are really loved in Canada because there are not that many up there.

Shelters need to be more willing to adopt out of state. Plus several of the folks who have adopted from us out of state still send us funds each year. And I am not talking $10.00 either.

I think it's very nice that you adopt out of state and that you have a doggie transport guy to help. As long as the app is good, like with this dog who's now in NYC, I think it's a great idea.

The dog is living across the street from Central Park. Let's just say not a cheap neighborhood, not a cheap apartment either. That dog has friends who live on some acres just 30 minutes away roughly and it is all fenced in.